• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

580B rebuilt hydraulic lift cylinder trouble

Fordman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
92
Location
Clinton, Indiana
yes, I have recently put aftermarket seal kits in my lift cylinders I used every seal except for one that didnt have a place, and it says extra seals may be present but most of all they are still leaking not alot, but a drip line down the cylinder and small puddle on the concrete can anyone help me?
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Kinda hard for any of us to know "why" a rebuilt cylinder is leaking, because it shouldn't be. Possiblities; bent rod, nicks or scratches on rod, worn bore in gland head, nicked or cut the lip on the u-cup seal upon installation. Have to ask to make sure, the u-cup was installed with the u side of seal facing inward, right? :)
 

cps

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
811
Location
Ireland
Occupation
plant mechanic
Like Atco said, it could be anything, hard to tell if we didnt see it! Put one thing i did see (last year now) was a hairline crack in a glan of a ram New glan and never looked back!

Also i would'nt just blame it on aftermarket seal, something they can be from the same manufactor as O.E.M
 

Fordman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
92
Location
Clinton, Indiana
well both cylinders are leaking the right like 5 times more than the left and I had my dad run it while I watched the cylinder and its coming out the outer side of the rod wiper where the metal part of the rod wiper is bent in a tiny bit and not fully contacting the seat of the gland for the seal and the left is coming out the outer edge of the rod wiper too
 
  • Like
Reactions: RES

oldseabee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
529
Location
Milner, Ga.
Occupation
Retired
The rod wiper isn't made to hold oil back, it's only supposed to keep dirt from getting back in to the cylinder. The gland seals should hold the oil back. If you used a pick to get the old seals out of the groove, you might have scratched the groove in the process.
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Sorry to hear about your trouble Fordman. As has been stated, it's hard for us to tell you what's wrong. But, rebuilding these types of cylinders is not complicated. Like oldseabee said, the wiper doesn't hold back oil, that's the job of the inner u-cup, the wiper only prevents dirt/contaminents from fouling u-cup from the outside.

This is very simple. First of all, the seals must be the correct size seals, maybe they gave you the wrong seals. If your certain they are correct, take your cylinder apart, all components must be thoroughly cleaned. Inspect inside and outside of gland for scratches, cracks, corrosion pits, etc. Once you have verified gland is in proper working condition, install the new seals by hand or by using a dull ended tool, under no circumstances use sharp tools or pics for installation. And most important, the u-cup must be installed with the "U" side pointing inward. Hope this helps. :)
 

Hardline

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
340
Location
Waxahachie Texas
Occupation
Small business owner
Another thing to watch for in addition to the other great info is to inspect the rod. Any nick scratch or abrasion will begin to wear the U cup at every in and out pass. I have filed down scrapes and then polished them up with fine emory cloth before to bring an old cylinder back to a little bit of life but it will still not last as long as a new or rechromed rod. JJ
 

Fordman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
92
Location
Clinton, Indiana
Well I looked at my cylinders and the one that leaks bad does have a couple noticable scratches from something that went straight down it I looked on broken tractor.com and a new rod alone is 260 bucks
 

barklee

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
903
Location
ohio
IF you contact a hyraulic shop they will be able to weld and re-chrome the gouges. At worst they can make you a new ram for that machine. The seals wont last if there is any damage to that ram! Trust me on that one
 

koldsteele

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
223
Location
Va.
Occupation
Owner Heavy Equipment Mechanic
Well heres my 2 cents ...Take that back apart and like atco said make sure you aint got somethin flipped around ...Look close and think which way oil travels ..Your gland wiper "as pointed out before " is just that ,A DUST seal ....I've put several cylinders together where the chrome is knocked off..Told the man it wont hold unless you rechrome ...To my surprise most have held for a good long while ...
Take your cylinder back apart and look closely at your gland seal .!!!
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
I tend to agree, there's someting wrong. In post #6, you mentioned the cyl on the right leaks "like 5 times more than the left", an obvious difference for rebuilt cylinders. In post #10, you said "the one that leaks bad", indicating a substantial leak. I have seen old stabilizer cylinders on backhoes with scuffs all over them not leak "real bad".

Granted, scratches and grooves in the chrome can and will leak oil, but unless the gouges are really deep or are at a right angle to the seal and it "pics" at the seal, it's typically no more than seepage. A substantial leak typically would take more than just a "noticable" scratch, more like serious rod damage. Something just doesn't sound right. :)
 

Ando

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
191
Location
Australia
Occupation
Proprietor - 5 Star Contract Services
Chrome rod repair

Just for everyones general info- chrome rods can be weld repaired with an electrode made by Castolin Eutectic. The rod is "680CGS" It's a chrome nickel type electrode. (which their competitors haven't copied correctly yet; no, it's not a 312 SS rod, no matter what anyone says)
I have repaired cylinders on cranes up to 300mm diameter. The rods can be welded at low amps, without undercut and then sanded/linished back, in situ. I've saved customers literally tens of thousands of dollars with these rods.
 

mljohn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
105
Location
USA
had a somero lazer screed a guy called me said the main boom cyl needed reasealed. upon inspection a chunk of concrete wedged itself in the wiper needless to say a huge scrape the entire 20 some foot of rod bad.the owner said no to recrome or replace so i took a few polish pads on a die grinder polished thru the crome cleaned up as best i could resealed it and 5 years later many yards of concrete later still no leak.sometimes its just dumb luck. i couldnt get away with doing that on purpose.
 

QuickTrax

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
368
Location
Houston
I sell a lot of aftermarket seal kits and haven't had any issues with the quality of them. Anytime a cylinder leaks after being rebuilt it is usually because the seals were cut during installation or the rod has scrapes or nicks. These are the first two things I would look for. Good luck
 

TD-5

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
77
Location
Britsh Columbia Canada
I would have to agree with Atco, something isn't right.Going back to the beginning, You stated you used every seal in the kit except one. Most kits have extra buffer seals & back up rings for the newer style glands, where the old 580B glands only use the U cup rod seal, the wiper dust seal & the large o ring & back up ring to seal the gland in the cylinder.
 

Attachments

  • Copy of hyd_cyl_split_piston2 (Small) (Custom).jpg
    Copy of hyd_cyl_split_piston2 (Small) (Custom).jpg
    23.2 KB · Views: 716
  • Copy of hyd_cyl_split_piston (Custom).jpg
    Copy of hyd_cyl_split_piston (Custom).jpg
    19.2 KB · Views: 765
Last edited:

boone

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,047
Location
AL
If a hydraulic newbie could ask a question related to this topic, do "seal kits" typically come with the piston rings? I know these don't keep a cylinder from leaking externally, but if the piston rings are in good shape do you generally reuse them and just replace the rod seal, o-rings, dust seal, etc?
 

tloft

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
51
Location
Glen Mills, PA
The way I think is if you go to the trouble to pull a rod and have a look, it only takes a few minutes to replace the rings and the gland seal - yes, typically they come together.
 

oldseabee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
529
Location
Milner, Ga.
Occupation
Retired
Something that I haven't seen mentioned here is to check the rods with a straight edge for a slight bend. It doesn't take much of a bend to put the seals in a real bind when the rod is moved in and out. Something could have fallen on the bucket to give it a real shock and bow the rods just a little, hard to see with the naked eye but a straight edge can show it
 
Top