580 Ck no reverse

[LeeS]

I recently got a 67 580 CK. It has the power shuttle transmission and a gas motor. It will go forward, but won't go in reverse. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[Phil]

There is another with a similar problem on the thread just below, 580B CK. I think I'm safe in saying that it's probably in the shuttle assembly itself and that means splitting the tractor. Check that the forward reverse lever is moving the selector spool, you should be able to 'feel' the 3 detents, or notches. What does your dash pressure gauge read, when in forward, and reverse? Phil

 

[areostar62]

i have a 580 b when hot great pressure in neutral no pressure in forward or reverse shut it off then start it back up right away have all gears after awhile same thing new oil and gaskets put in. im a new member it wont let me post thanks jim

 

[areostar62]

also new filters it is a shuttle trans 1974 580 b all was fine until oil change then this happened

 

[LeeS]

What could it be in the shuttle that causes this? The forward reverse lever does move in the selector spool, I will check the feel in the detents and the pressure. Thanks

 

[Phil]

Areostar,
When in neutral there is less demand for oil, hence the pressure will stay up in the green. Placing the machine in gear requires more flow to the shuttle to move clutch discs, lubricate the shuttle assembly, and in early models charge the converter too. Shutting the machine off and restarting may allow debris to temporarily fall back away from the pump pick-up screen, just a theory, but these machines are known for plugged pump screens.

Even driving a 580B up on a float ramp will move sludge in the bottom of the torque tube, just enough to plug a screen.

Many other causes for low pressure when in gear, sometimes a repair requires splitting the tractor, but sometimes not. What kind of oil did you put back in? Phil

 

[LeeS]

Looks like reverse clutch drum is very loose. Some of clutch assembly not in hub while spinning, can slide hub and gear forward and back. Broken or loose snap ring?

 

[Phil]

Lee,
If the drum you refer to is the rear drum, that's part of forward gear clutch pack, I believe. It does move a little and is supposed to have some end play, .025"min., .045"max., and this is adjusted by the shims, on the main shaft. These shims can be seen just behind the gear you refer to. No lined clutch discs should be out of the drum 'notches', they should be engaging the drum. Posting a picture of a Rockwell shuttle from a B model. If you could post a picture.....Phil

 

[areostar62]

hi phil i am using tdh fluid and have cleaned the screen when i had it split to put a new housing rotation bearing in and all new gaskets to stop all the leaks was running fine before i touched this also all new filters were installed also new o rings in shuttle shift were put in i can here the pump running its noisy and sounds like air passing through the lines i am stumped also the bearing was fine until my buddy tried to remove it and damaged it any ideas would be great thanks jim

 

[LeeS]

Here's a couple of pictures. the drum I was asking about is the one closest to to engine. After splitting tractor found that the bearing was not seated in the housing, in front of drum, so the gear wasn't hitting the idler gear. What would cause this to slip out? There was also an oil seal/snap ring with a broken tab still in groove,should I replace that

 

[Phil]

Areostar,
I need a little more to go on. What was wrong with this machine in the first place? It sounds like you have recently split your tractor and taken the shuttle assembly out? Did you take your shuttle assembly all apart and reseal it? Did you remove the adapter plate with the pump pick-up tube attached?

If the shuttle cooler/filter lines vibrate, and there is an steady audible buzzing sound, the pump may sucking air. The pump mount seal or pick-up tube/ gasket may be leaking air in.

And you have low pressure on your dash pressure gauge, only when in gear, not in neutral? Phil

 

[Phil]

Lee,
So when you bought the machine it had no reverse? I see you have a Rockwell shuttle which is good. After you split the tractor the shuttle assembly may have slid to the rear slightly, only the countershaft gear will stop it I think. The mainshaft bearing, at the front of the assembly, slides into the bore in the torque tube, and is not a press fit, rather a sliding fit. As I recall it's the same fit on the shaft. If the problem with the forward drum was there before disassembly, then yes, I would look at every snap ring in your shuttle assembly very carefully.

Any snap ring out of it's groove is cause for concern. As long as it was in place when disassembled, it was likely doing it's job. Is your shuttle assembly apart at this time? Phil

 

[LeeS]

Phil
You're right, when I bought the machine no reverse and it had been sittting for 11 years. It is apart at this time.

 

[areostar62]

yes Phil i split the tractor replaced housing rotation bearing did not touch shuttle new gasket between motor and rear where it was separated and all shuttle shift gaskets and o rings the pickup tube was full of dirt cleaned it put all together and it sounds like you were saying air pipes vibrating i will be doing pressure checks today will let you know the pressure

 

[areostar62]

hi phil the pressure off the filter was 245lbs on idle but lots of air still any ideas jim

 

[Phil]

Jim,
I forgot to mention that the 2 steel lines running up front to the filter and shuttle oil cooler are very close to the hood and radiator. They like to vibrate against these and can give the buzzing sound. If you can feel the lines vibrate right at the control valve, the pump is probably sucking air or cavitating, usually much more noticeable when the oil is cold.

Is your clutch adjusted correctly with a 3.1" distance? Does the pedal always return up to the stop, with foot off?

Did you tee into the oil filter line or did you disconnect the upper oil filter line and attach your gauge on the filter housing, as in the pump test shown in the service manual? If you attached your gauge directly on the shuttle oil filter, then the gauge should read 275-325 psi at low idle, warm, in neutral, and with clutch engaged. Increasing the engine rpm to 2250, the pressure should not exceed 500 psi.

Next test is the clutch pressure test. Remove the oil line going to your dash pressure gauge, at the control valve and install your test gauge. Pressure should be 170-190 psi at 1500 rpm, with transmission gearshift in neutral,engine warm,and shuttle selector in forward, and then reverse.

Next test is the converter pressure check, using a 0-100 psi test gauge. Remove the allen head pipe plug located beside the temperature sending unit, on the converter pressure regulating valve, located next to the control valve. With transmission in neutral, clutch engaged, engine warm and at 1500 rpm, the converter charge pressure should be 30 psi.

Let us know the results. Phil

 

[areostar62]

hi Phil i decided to take it apart again and i cleaned out the tanks lots of dirt i thought i got it all out before also that still did not cause all the air i found a couple of pin holes on the pick up tube where it goes into the flange i soldered it up put it all back together and it has never worked this good. pressure almost to the red the pump has never been so quiet since Ive bought it 10 yrs ago and lots of power i think the holes in the tube has been there along time. thank you for your help this site has a lot of info and has helped me out a few times thanks again jim

 

[LeeS]

the problem was on the transmission input shaft. The snap ring was bent and shims pushed back into the seal. filed groove put in two new snap rings checked the spacing and it now works good. Thanks for your help Phil