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3306 Engine Oil Synthetic or Standard SAE 30 ?

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,554
Location
Canada
I don't think the oil degrades, especially if the engine might only sit for a few month's. If equipment is parked over the winter month's most people aren't automatically changing the oil in the spring. I had an old pickup sitting for about 10 years. A guy was interested in buying it so I checked the dipstick. The oil looked almost new. I'm sure any condensation would get burnt off pretty quick once it was started. You'd definately want to change the oil but the oil in it is certainly good to get the engine running again. Sitting a few month's I wouldn't change the oil if it has low hours since it was last changed. On a diesel it can hard to tell looking at the oil because it turns black almost instantly in most engines.
 

chidog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
800
Location
kent, wa
Multi-grade oils have "viscosity improvers" added so the oil can keep a steady viscosity over a wider temperature range.

Viscosity improvers added to oil are long-chain polymers that have the curious property of becoming more viscous when cold, and thickening up when hot.

This is the opposite of oils properties, so the VI's enable the oil to stay thicker when it's hot, and to help stop it getting really thick, when it's cold.



I think you meant become "LESS VISCOUS" when cold?
--------------------------------------------------------------

viscous​

adjective
1. having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity
----------------------------------------------------------

The old cats used what I remember as a series 3 oil. Straight weight 30 mostly.
Multi viscosity oils have less load carrying capacity, because a very thin oil is used then the poly modifiers added to that.
There is a good reason you will never find Multi viscosity oils used in Locomotive engines, large marine engines, large aircooled radial aircraft engines, and detroit 2 strokes (recommendation from the manufacture) . I suppose I could also include some high performance race engines as well.
And back in the day of quality Briggs and Stratton engines they were against multi viscosity as well.

If you have to use a multi vis oil. I'd use 20W-40 or 50. That is a warm state?
 

LCA078

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
Messages
292
Location
Austin, TX
Everybody else in the world is going to fill it with Rotella T4 15W-40 and send it . . . but don't do that, we can take this thread to at least 6 pages!
Kirkland (Costco brand) Diesel Motor Oil made by Warren Distribution is also a pretty cost-to-quality product.
 

chickenminer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Messages
72
Location
Alaska
I've got a D6C and use 15/40 in it. Question ... I need to change torque converter/transmission oil. Book calls for 30wt. Is that still the protocol or has it changed for the older machines ?
 

OzDozer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
2,207
Location
Perth, Western Australia.
Occupation
Semi-Retired ..
The protocols for oil types and weights have changed enormously just in the last 25 years, let alone the last 50 or 60 years.
Use the current oil recommendations for the temperature range of the area you live/work in.

New, improved additives for oil are being discovered regularly, and improved oils are what has allowed the development and production of todays high performance engines.
 

Mcrafty1

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Messages
445
Location
Central Maine
Occupation
Earth work
Pricing for TO4 in 5 gallon pails is quite reasonable, at least at my local Cat dealer. Only a few bucks more than “tractor” grade oil sold at Tractor Supply. Well worth it IMO.
I bought it from Sinopec for $90.00 a pail, it was however delivered to my door for that price. Did I pay too much?
 

IceHole

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2023
Messages
659
Location
AK
We changed our oil twice a month, but then again our stuff was probably clocking 600 hours in that time.
Sure. I meant doing oil changes based on time vs run time. A monthly oil change would run a guy $1500+ a year, which would be crazy if it's something that might see 100 hours a year.
 

OzDozer

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Jan 18, 2007
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Perth, Western Australia.
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Semi-Retired ..
Oil is a combination of many hydrocarbon chemicals, which the industrial chemists in the oil companies try to make as stable as possible.
However, many of these chemicals - especially the additives - are designed to react rapidly to the presence of undesirable chemicals that the oil comes into contact with - particularly, water.

If water in any form comes into contact with the oil, then the additives designed to deal with and neutralise water (and the byproducts of water - such as rust), will start to activate and thereby reduce in quantity.

Any moisture introduced into engine oil compartments will start to react with any bare metal surfaces it can find, and any number of compounds in the oil, that are a by-product of combustion.

Thus, we have sulphides, nitrides and other undesirable compounds in the oil that can form sulphuric acid and nitric acid when water reacts with them.
When this happens, the other additives that are designed to neutralise acids start to react with these compounds, and are gradually "used up", or contaminated by them.

Moisture gets into engines that are laid up, via condensation - especially if you get wide temperature variations between night and day in your area, or if your local climate is hot and humid.

Condensation and water that has not been in reaction with the oil is driven off by heating, when the engine is run up to operating temperature.
So the best thing to do, to avoid oil degradation and engine corrosion problems when a machine isn't being used, is to run it up to operating temperature every few weeks.

This runup will also spread oil around on splash-fed surfaces that need the protection of an oil film.
Oil very gradually drips off camshaft lobes and gears and other surfaces that need protection, and it's important that an occasional runup puts an oil coating back on them.

Oil companies often put out recommendations for oil changes based on calendar time, set to accommodate the very worst conditions that they can envisage.
Of course, it's helping their sales levels if they advise changing your oil every few months, even when the tractor hasn't been used.
 

Acoals

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
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1,350
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Jack of all trades/Master of none
However, many of these chemicals - especially the additives - are designed to react rapidly to the presence of undesirable chemicals that the oil comes into contact with - particularly, water.

If water in any form comes into contact with the oil, then the additives designed to deal with and neutralise water (and the byproducts of water - such as rust), will start to activate and thereby reduce in quantity.

I don't think I ever quite understood it that way . . .

Thanks for taking the time to spell some of this out, it's very helpful!
 

Check Break

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
469
Location
USA
I've got a D6C and use 15/40 in it. Question ... I need to change torque converter/transmission oil. Book calls for 30wt. Is that still the protocol or has it changed for the older machines ?
No, not even close if you're thinking about using a 30wt engine oil. We used to use engine oil in the TC/Trans not that many years ago but the oil formulas have all changed. As mentioned by others, use a CAT rated oil for your transmission or one that meets or exceeds the CAT recommended oil. Modern emissionized engine oils will ruin your transmission. Hope that helps a bit.
 

.RC.

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
769
Location
Qld, Australia
The local Cat dealer are probably the cheapest place to buy oils around here.

For example a 20l (which is a litre more then 5 US gallons) container of 15-40 or TDTO30 in US$ is around $80.

I see Cat even make a universal tractor transmission oil. I will be getting some of that for our John Deere stuff from now on as it is a hell of a lot cheaper then what we have been paying for petroleum company name brand.

No, not even close if you're thinking about using a 30wt engine oil. We used to use engine oil in the TC/Trans not that many years ago but the oil formulas have all changed.

When you think about it, engine oils you want slippery for lubrication.

With transmissions that have wet clutches, you want an oil they is not slippery on clutch plates, but slippery for gears and bearings.
 
Last edited:

Zembo

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2023
Messages
16
Location
Cumming Ga 30040
Thanks for all the input guys. I went with the 15/40.

But, I did come across some futuristic oil with ceramic in it on Amazon. Way to expensive, but the science is interesting..

FYI:

TriboDyn TRI-EX 2 Full Synthetic SAE 15W40 Oil with Ceramic Coating.​


Any body know about this stuff?
 

nicky 68a

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,164
Location
england
I’ve ran 15/40 in my older D8H/K tractors for 30+ years.They wouldn’t do more than 5 or 600 hours a year for the last 20 years though.Same oil went in the transmissions too.
I’ll point out that they get fresh oil and filters in the engine every month when they’re busy though.
Transmission oil dropped and changed every couple of years.
As for my newer D8R/T D9T kit,I go by the book on oil specs from Cat and keep engine oil and fuel filters changed strictly at 250 hours.
Oil and filters are allways purchased from Cat,however my older Cats get oil from local suppliers.
 
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