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315 on a tag

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by shadow, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. shadow

    shadow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    ct
    I was wondering what the best type of trailer for towing a 315. i was think a triaxle trailer i was thinking a fixed deck but i dont know much about tilt deck trailers.

    i have look into tilt deck a little and the problem that i see is trying to get two machine on the trailer might not be possible with out a ramp seeing that the trailer will start to go do with the weight of a bobcat onboard. since the new ones with forks and bucket weigh near 15000lbs
     
  2. brian falcone

    brian falcone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    r.i.
    hauling

    we have an eager beaver high tensile 20 ton tag with ramps for our 315...we used to pull it with an international s2200 6 wheeler before we got the 3 macks . one time we pulled the 315 on the tag with a bobcat 753 parked sideways on the front of the trailer.
     
  3. DiamondLTruckin

    DiamondLTruckin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    107
    Occupation:
    Truck Driver / Mexican Dragline Operator / Mechani
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Our TrailMax TRD54T works pretty nicely haulin a 315. I love the trailer.
     

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  4. WV earth mover

    WV earth mover Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    WV
    Our sk 160 gets moved on a 20 ton loadking tilt , works fine
     
  5. tootalltimmy

    tootalltimmy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
    The tilt decks work well to load 2 machines when there is a front section that is fixed ( does not tilt). Can you get a 15,000lb bobcat on a 5 foot space?

    I have a 20 ton tilt deck that I haul a Case 135 on. Previous owner said he hauled a 160 on it. I get close to the max weight on the trailer axles with mine (37,400 lbs)

    Here are my weights when I crossed the scale last time:

    front-10,560
    rear-24,200
    trailer-36,300 lbs

    I think you need a tridem.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  6. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    S/W CO
    I haul my 315CL w/THB (39,900#) on a triaxle tag, beaver tail trailer. I went with a triaxle because I did not want to buy another trailer if I decided to buy a larger piece of equipment. I could haul it on a 20t tandem but it would be close to max capacity. I can haul the trackhoe with my walk behind compactor (3,000#) and/or my additional attachments (bucket and compaction wheel). I could afford the weight of my skid steer (8,000# Bobcat A300) but I would have to try to load it sideways and I don't think it would fit even if I removed the bucket. Anyway, here are some pictures:

    IMG_0175.jpg

    IMG_0176.jpg

    IMG_0177.jpg

    I thought about buying a tilt deck but there are (3) things that I don't like about them. IME they are too sensitive to load placement. If you don't put enough weight on the tongue than things get squirrely fast. Even if you get the load placed right I think they can be "pushy". You can feel the weight of the load trying to push around the tow vehicle. They also can be difficult to get traction (while driving up the deck) if you are loading in the rain or snow.
    Maybe load placement is not so critical with a tilt tridem (I have only used tandem axle tilt trailers in the past). I know that my Towmaster is more trailer than I need for the 315 but it tows like a dream. The downside is that the tires can see some serious side torque when hard turning while loaded. Some nice things about the tilts are that you will never have to try to shift heavy ramps, repair cracks in your ramps, or worry about if you remembered to lift the ramps before driving off. One thing that is universal to all trailers is that you can never have enough d-rings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  7. tootalltimmy

    tootalltimmy Senior Member

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    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
    Nice looking equipment.
     
  8. Nac

    Nac Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Messages:
    566
    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    NJ
    Here what I use a BWS 25 ton tri axle tilt
     

    Attached Files:

  9. shadow

    shadow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    ct
    I was just told that in the state of ct a tag trailer can be only 28 feet over all lenth. and no longer so i wonder what triaxle trailer would be under 28 feet over all lenth
     
  10. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    excavation
    Location:
    Idaho
  11. shadow

    shadow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
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    Location:
    ct
    it is over all length of the trailer has to be less then 28 feet so i was wondering were you could buy a triaxle trailer that short
     
  12. KSSS

    KSSS Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    excavation
    Location:
    Idaho
    There was some short triaxles on Machinery Trader this Winter. Like four of them from the same dealer. I think they were in Mn. but I maybe wrong on location. They may still be there. Cant imagine they move a lot of those trailers. Tire scrubbing would seem to be an issue on them to me.
     
  13. shadow

    shadow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    ct
    i have leanerd that with the ct law it is not leagle to tow a 315 on a tag trailer i talk to some one at the dot
     
  14. 2004F550

    2004F550 Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    323
    Occupation:
    Operator/Student
    Location:
    Connecticut
    ?? well you didn't talk to the right person, totally acceptable with the proper equipment
     
  15. shadow

    shadow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    ct
    the law is that on a tag trailer you need to have a wheel base of 51 feet to gross 80000lbs. witch means the truck would be a triaxle but then the truck would weigh to much and you would be at about 85000lbs with the 55000lbs trailer and 30000lbs triaxle "light truck" witch is not leagle in this state

    there is no way to get the lenth with out the added weight to meet both laws

    it needs to be moved on a goose neck with an over weight permite is the only legal way to move the mechine

    i called the ct dot
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2011
  16. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
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    791
    Location:
    S/W CO
    I'm not familiar with Conn-DOT or the laws in your state. But this is not making much sense. I know that good information can be hard to get. In many cases (no matter the state) you will get different, and usually conflicting, information depending on which individual you talk to. I can't say what source would be best, but I would start by refering to written laws/rules & regs. These can often be open to interperetation and difficult to navigate to the information you are looking for. Usually persons working at the Port of Entry should be up on all current regulations, but not always.
     
  17. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    S/W CO
    My dump truck is NOT light. It weighs 24,130 pounds with no load but full of fuel. The dump bed is a "bomb grade demolition bed" (1/4" AR400 steel throughout, including the high lift tailgate). It's not a light bed. Maybe adding a drop axle would put another 6k# on it but I don't think so. I'm not sure why you would need a triaxle dump just to pull a 315 behind it anyway (let alone an over weight permit with a 5th wheel and a lowboy). My triaxle trailer weighs 11,000# empty. It's not "light weight" either. My 2003 Cat 315 CL weighs 40,000 pounds. It is equipped with the long undercarriage, long stick, reach boom, hydraulic thumb, hydraulic "quick-tach", and a 3' heavy duty rock bucket. The only thing, I can see, that may be possible to add weight would be the 28" grousers (mine are 24"). My machine weighs 39,900 pounds.
    In summary:
    Dump truck: 24,130 pounds
    Triaxle trailer: 11,000 pounds
    Cat 315: 39,900 pounds

    TOTAL: 75,030 pounds
    Unless I have done my math wrong you are not anywhere near 80,000 pounds. On a side note, the 80,000 pound rule is a federal rule that the states have adopted on the interstataes. In my state (I can't say that this is true for all states) I can run 85,000 pounds on secondary roads.
    BTW I did some research to see if I could haul my 315 from CO to CA. I would have to go through New Mexico and Arizona to get there. All four state have different laws about weight. They are all based on what each state has adopted as a "bridge gap formula". This basically means that each state has different design criteria for bridge construction and expected life of the bridge (taking into account environmental/seasonal weather considerations). The closer together that your wheel base is equals more weight in a concentrated area. A longer wheelbase will spread out the load, and reduce the stresses on the roadway (and bridges). In CO I can put up to 62,000 pounds on a tridem (three axles in series within a specified wheelbase-which I can't remember the specific distance right now). In NM it's 36,000 pounds. The most stringent was CA. They do not even recognize the tridem so the weight of my trailer is restricted to the same as that of a tandem (two axles). In CA this is 34,000 pounds. Despite these restrictions I could load my 315 (all the way forward-against the head rail) and keep it under 34,000 for the tridem. Obviously this puts a lot of strain on the pintle hitch. I consulted the trailer MFR and they said that the trailer could handle up to 25% of its payload capacity (50,000 pounds or 25 ton) on the tongue. Even though the 315 was all the way up front it met the criteria.
    I have offered the above to illustrate that it is possible to haul a 315 (on a triaxle, behind dumptruck) even with very restrictive regulations. You will have to research your states regulations. I would find out what the max weight is for steer axles, tandems, and tridems. Max GVW (you said 80,000 and I doubt you will reach that hauling a 315) must be met also. The bridge gap must be considered too. The bridge gap does not usually reduce the max GCVW (with possible seasonal exceptions). It will determine what your axle spacing will be.
    BTW, in most states you can haul up to 40,000 pounds (20 ton) on a two axle (tandem) 20 ton trailer. The 20 ton trailer will weigh less than the 25 ton trailer.
     
  18. shadow

    shadow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    ct
    im only allowed 73000lbs on side roads unless i have the 51 foot wheel base. That would mean with a 25 foot wheel base trailer i would need a truck with a wheel base of 26 feet from the center of the front axle to the pintail plate. a truck that long would weigh close to 30000 pounds do to the extra frame and bed the truck has it would also be inpraticle truck to drive


    if i towed it with the ten wheeler i had spec that truck ways 25000 with a 13000 pound tilt trailer and a 42000 pound mechine i would weigh 80000lbs witch means i need the 51 foot wheel base to get the 80000lbs it will weigh

    the person who tows it now on a goose neck his truck weigh 40000lbs empty and the mechine is 42000lbs meining you weigh 82000lbs so you need an over weight permit
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  19. Kgmz

    Kgmz Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    308
    Occupation:
    General Contractor
    Location:
    Portland, OR & Eatonville, WA
    Shadow,

    To help you clarify what you have been saying.

    The 51 ft rule you mentioned.
    5 axles combo at 51 ft allowed 80,000, so that could mean a 3 axle truck (front axle and tandem) and a tandem axle trailer, or it could mean a 2 axle truck and tri axle trailer, and this is as long as individual axle weight are not exceeded.

    Go to a 6 axle combo and you can carry 80,000 in only 43 ft.

    Go to a 7 axle combo and you can carry 80,000 in only 34 ft.


    Everyone else has mostly been talking about a 3 axle truck and tri-axle trailer so it is a 6 axle combo

    CT Bridge Formula at link below.
    http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/Documents/dpermits/eh_ndlgi.pdf

    Print that sheet and carry it in your truck. As long as you have not exceeded any and all axle weights, individual, group and total, you are legal.
     
  20. Kgmz

    Kgmz Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    308
    Occupation:
    General Contractor
    Location:
    Portland, OR & Eatonville, WA
    Over here in the NW we are also bridge law states, but with more weight allowed.

    I have 2 dump trucks, one with 4 axles and the other with 5 axles.

    The 4 axle truck with out Trailmax tri-axle is allowed 88,500

    The 5 axle truck with our Trailmax tri-axle is allowed 94,000

    When they are pulling their dump pup trailers with 70 ft wheelbase for truck and trailer, a 4 axle pup for the 4 axle truck, and a 3 axle pup for the 5 axle truck we are allowed 105,500.


    Our bridge law weight table.
    http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/46A25D5A-FE56-46BE-AEC6-47CB4BEC072D/0/Legal_Weight.pdf