299D DTC Codes / Engine Problems

[D6braun]

Having some intermittent issues with our CAT 299D skid steer, been trying to fix this for a little while so posting the full timeline below. Mainly interested in folks thoughts or how they might start troubleshooting the speed sensor and if its possible to bench test the engine sensor. Sorry for the overload of information but figured more details the better.

299D1 Skid Steer (Serial: GTC00593) Machine History:

• 10/29/2022 Replaced engine with CAT Reman
• 09/11/2023 Had CAT come out to an island job to troubleshoot and run a forced regen. It was in limp mode prior, and couldn’t preform a regen. After the forced regen we were able to get it off the island, and appeared to be working well for a short while. We have replaced the speed sensor #2 (377-6953) prior to CAT tech coming out and have a few other times, as we were getting the DTC 723-2 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Data Erratic, Intermittent, or Incorrect).
• 10/02/2023 Had CAT tech come out to work on another machine and said he unable was unable to clear logged DTC's because it (ECM?) was a not manufactured by CAT (like Kubota Engine?) and couldn’t clear previous DTC’s codes with CAT ET tool. Also couldn’t read much more than the what the display showed for DTC’s.
• 10/02/2023 See attached PDF of DTC codes. Was intermittently having issues and DTC’s would come on, not super helpful PDF because none of the codes are active just shows past DTC’s which can’t be cleared.
• 11/29/2023 See attached PDF of DTC codes. More frequently having issues, guys that have been running it say that it infrequently shuts itself off (abruptly stops) and even more infrequently it won’t start. As I understand it this usually happened after 3-5 hours of heavy machine use and then becomes occurs more frequently after the machine is heated up. And occurs until the machine then won’t start at all, then when coming back to it the next day it will start and operate normally.
• 02/20/2024 Tried to replicate problem and could only get it to pop up with two active DTC’s (see attached photos DTC E60032-2 and DTC 723-2). Ran the machine up/down hill for 1.5 hrs to trigger DTC 723-2 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Data Erratic, Intermittent, or Incorrect). But other than the DTC’s the machine ran well, appeared to successfully run a DPF regen a few minutes after starting the engine.

Active DTC Codes:

• DTC E60032-2 (Engine Speed Limited Due to Cold Engine) This has occurred since the motor was replaced, sounds like it is related to the software version of the advance display.

I have gathered the following "Engine speed limited warm-up mode"
If an older machine is flashed with the new machine software, the advanced display will not state "Eng Speed Limited Warm Up Mode". Instead the display will state "E60032-2”.
The advanced display can be flashed with the new monitor software group and the display will state, "Eng Speed Limited Warm Up Mode". Many features and operations of the display will also change with this new software. A Service Magazine and Special Instructions are in process to cover those changes. This new display software went into production in September 2018.
Note: If the machine is equipped with a basic display the amber alert indicator will flash until the machine has warmed sufficiently.

• DTC 723-2 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Data Erratic, Intermittent, or Incorrect). This has occurred even prior to the motor being replaced. We have replaced the speed sensor #2 (377-6953) a few times. Not sure if there is a way to bench test the current sensor to see if it has failed again.

Inactive DTC Codes (Can’t Clear):

• DTC 100-1 (Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Low – Most Severe 3)
• DTC 190-0 (Engine Speed Sensor High – Most Severe 3)
• DTC 636-8 (Engine Position Sensor Abnormal Frequency Pulse Width or Period)
• DTC 723-8 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Abnormal Frequency Pulse Width or Period)
• DTC 523539-2 (Fuel Pump Pressure Data Erratic, Intermittent or Incorrect)
• DTC 144-5 (Backup Alarm Relay Current Below Normal)
• DTC 3700-3 (Loader Bucket Inclinometer Sensor Voltage Above Normal)

 

[Nige]

E60032-2 (Engine Speed Limited Due to Cold Engine)

The replacement motor obviously has the latest software. Nothing to worry about. That DTC doesn't even get logged in the ECM. It only pops up on the Advanced Display until the coolant warms up past 20 degC (68 DegF) then it disappears.

723-2 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Data Erratic, Intermittent, or Incorrect)

It could just as easily be a wiring/connector problem as it could be a bad sensor - as you probably already know. There is a troubleshooting procedure for the Speed/Timing. See attached. If you think you need an complete electrical schematic please ask.

Inactive DTC Codes (Can’t Clear):

What are you trying to clear them with.?

 

[Ridinhigh1500]

The engine in your 299D is a Kubota V3800-TIEF4-L it has a Denso based engine management ECU. All of the DTC's you have listed are not Denso or Kubota DTC's those that are being displayed by the machine ECM are CAT so ET should absolutely be able to erase them. The only reason they might not delete is because they are active hard codes. But with all those sensors being on the engine harness I would suspect you have a bad spot in the harness or the connection in between the machine ECM and engine ECM is bad. Now as far as the warm up thing that is a Kubota thing. On the SVL 90, 95 and 97 there is like a 2 min warm up period where you can't throttle the machine up. But when I worked at CAT I don't ever remember that on the 299's or the 297's. But I left in 2018 right before all the D2 stuff came out.

 

[AO299D]

My guess is you need a new engine wire harness

DTC 144-5 (Backup Alarm Relay Current Below Normal) could be just a missing relay in the fuse panel

DTC 3700-3 (Loader Bucket Inclinometer Sensor Voltage Above Normal)it's common for the wire to hookup plate to get damaged, either get the sensor disabled with et or fix it

 

[Nige]

My guess is you need a new engine wire harness

Good point. Was the original engine wiring harness used on the replacement engine.? If so that’s a big clue. There’s a particular location where the harness is stretched quite tightly round a corner that is known for failing wires.

 

[D6braun]

If you think you need an complete electrical schematic please ask.

I would appreciate a complete electrical schematic if you have one available.

What are you trying to clear them with.?

I haven't tried myself as I have a somewhat basic diesel scanner that will only read codes. With 6 or 7 late model year pieces of CAT equipment I feel like our company should buy at CAT ET setup though. Open to recommendations about where to buy that setup, i have been looking at online/ebay a bit. Want to buy some sort of toughbook as well.

When I said unable to clear them I meant that the CAT Dealer service tech was unable to clear those codes. I think that it might be what @Ridinhigh1500 might be saying though could my "inactive" or "logged" codes be hard codes that cant be cleared. I think that the CAT Dealer service tech because of warranty purposes on the engine.

Was the original engine wiring harness used on the replacement engine.?

Yes the original harness was used, they just added a new updated wiring harness for the emissions heater. Is the photo below the location I should closely inspect?

 

[Nige]

Yes the original harness was used, they just added a new updated wiring harness for the emissions heater. Is the photo below the location I should closely inspect?

If that photo came from another thread on this forum regarding the exact same issue of the engine harness giving problems then yes that is exactly where you should be looking.

I haven't tried myself as I have a somewhat basic diesel scanner that will only read codes. With 6 or 7 late model year pieces of CAT equipment I feel like our company should buy at CAT ET setup though.

I would agree with that. If you go the official route you'll need the Customer version of ET software ($ to buy plus an annual licence fee), hardware in the form of a Comms Adapter ($), plus a laptop. Toughbooks are nice to have but anyone who's careful can make do with a regular laptop.

When I said unable to clear them I meant that the CAT Dealer service tech was unable to clear those codes. I think that it might be what @Ridinhigh1500 might be saying though could my "inactive" or "logged" codes be hard codes that cant be cleared. I think that the CAT Dealer service tech because of warranty purposes on the engine.

If they will not clear using ET then they are Active Codes, not Logged. Your comment about the dealer tech being reluctant to erase Logged Codes because they were carrying the warranty on the engine is also a possibility. However he could have done - see below.

Top Tip #1: Any time you have a dealer tech hook up to any machine have him download a Product Status Report in pdf format and furnish you with a copy. TBH it should be in his SOP for anything involving the use of ET, along with making a second copy of the PSR as the last step after he finishes whatever work he is doing. As the customer you have a right to both of those reports - you paid for them.

I would appreciate a complete electrical schematic if you have one available.

Certainly. Check your messages.

 

[D6braun]

I spent some more time troubleshooting the 299D this evening. Mainly interested in trying to find why I am getting DTC 723-2 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Data Erratic, Intermittent, or Incorrect) as it is was an active code I was able to trigger after running the machine for an hour or so.

I went through procedure Speed Timing Test UENR3423-23 and verified supply voltage and ground at the crankshaft and camshaft sensor. Everything seemed to be normal. I tested resistance of each wire from the crankshaft and camshaft sensor to the ECM and got .4ma across all of them… assuming it’s normal because same reading across all of them. Also inspected the wiring harness for any abrasion or rough spots and didn’t find anything.

Kind of hate to just throw a new engine wiring harness at it without actually diagnosing the problem. I did swap the crankshaft and camshaft sensor to see if the DTC code changes but I am kinda doubting it will. The crankshaft wiring was slightly crimped (photo attached), but don’t necessarily think that’s the issue.
Is there any more wiring harness troubleshooting y’all can think of besides trying to get a no start condition or active code and then a wiggle test.

 

[Nige]

I did swap the crankshaft and camshaft sensor to see if the DTC code changes but I am kinda doubting it will.

Only if the problem is the sensor will the Diagnostic Code change. It will follow the sensor. The expected result if the engine wiring harness is suspect is that the Code will stay the same. Swapping the sensors only definitively eliminates the sensor as the potential problem.

Run the engine. If the same 723-2 Code comes back you’re into the wiggle test.

How many total hours on the machine BTW.?

 

[D6braun]

Current hours on the machine is 1899 had CAT replace the engine with a CAT Reman at 1699 hours.

 

[fastline]

I spent some more time troubleshooting the 299D this evening. Mainly interested in trying to find why I am getting DTC 723-2 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Data Erratic, Intermittent, or Incorrect) as it is was an active code I was able to trigger after running the machine for an hour or so.

I went through procedure Speed Timing Test UENR3423-23 and verified supply voltage and ground at the crankshaft and camshaft sensor. Everything seemed to be normal. I tested resistance of each wire from the crankshaft and camshaft sensor to the ECM and got .4ma across all of them… assuming it’s normal because same reading across all of them. Also inspected the wiring harness for any abrasion or rough spots and didn’t find anything.

Kind of hate to just throw a new engine wiring harness at it without actually diagnosing the problem. I did swap the crankshaft and camshaft sensor to see if the DTC code changes but I am kinda doubting it will. The crankshaft wiring was slightly crimped (photo attached), but don’t necessarily think that’s the issue.
Is there any more wiring harness troubleshooting y’all can think of besides trying to get a no start condition or active code and then a wiggle test.

As someone that does electrical troubleshooting, I do not like the look of the wires in your photo, especially Mr. Blue. What you will find with any high impedance meter is they do not 'load' the wire. However, you said you checked 'resistance' with a value of '.4mA'....? Can you explain your test method?? I assure you with the issues you have, I would be combing that area with a very fine tooth comb. I see wires all the time that are broke inside the insulation.

An issue that presents as random but works for an hour sure points to wiring. Personally, I would find and fix the wires as opposed to replacement. Sometimes that means de-pinning a connector and replacing several feet of wire in a harness to move the splice area to where a splice is practical.

Also note that on CATs, I have run into several issues where it's actually the barrel/pins in the plug itself. This is a 5min fix with the right tools. de-pin a barrel or two and test them against their pin. They should fit snug. If they are loose, you have found an issue. Reform the barrel, put it back in the plug, and go...

 

[Nige]

For any wire where you are doubtful of the continuity and/or capacity to transmit significant load I would suggest to use a at least a 1A test light. Hook one end of the wire to batt+ and the other end to machine frame ground with the test light inserted somewhere in the circuit.

 

[Ridinhigh1500]

Those three wires look terrible. I would cut out that section of bad wire and redo it. I also remember when the D series first came out there was a problem with the engine harness. The DPF differential pressure switch wires were braking inside the insulation from vibration. You could not tell there was anything wrong with them. CAT only figured it out because they had a company X Ray them. We had a huge campaign for over a year on it. The tell tell sign was it would have a Regen Frequency High problem.

 

[Chrisso]

Kind of hate to just throw a new engine wiring harness at it without actually diagnosing the problem.

It comes down to the cost of diagnosing and the cost of your machine downtime.

Cat do little connector repair kits for most (if not all) of the Kubota sensors on that engine, as well as a little kit that allows you to repin the suspect wires into the Kubota ECM. That would allow you to run complete new wires/connectors from sensor to ECM for all of the suspect circuits, which is part of troubleshooting anyway.

I don't know how much an engine wire harness is, and this still could be an ECM fault, but something tells me you're still better off replacing the engine harness at this point.

I have gathered the following "Engine speed limited warm-up mode"
If an older machine is flashed with the new machine software, the advanced display will not state "Eng Speed Limited Warm Up Mode". Instead the display will state "E60032-2”.

Correct. The display software needs to be updated via a USB on the back of the display. Not a huge concern but would be annoying. From Cat this will be in the form of a .tar file. The .tar needs to be lowercase so you'll need to play with Microsoft settings to view file extensions. I mention this because your Cat guy doesn't sound like he has much experience playing with these, which is also understandable considering how many machines Cat have using third party systems, ie Kubota...

Inactive DTC Codes (Can’t Clear):

• DTC 100-1 (Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Low – Most Severe 3)
• DTC 190-0 (Engine Speed Sensor High – Most Severe 3)
• DTC 636-8 (Engine Position Sensor Abnormal Frequency Pulse Width or Period)
• DTC 723-8 (Engine Speed Sensor #2 Abnormal Frequency Pulse Width or Period)
• DTC 523539-2 (Fuel Pump Pressure Data Erratic, Intermittent or Incorrect)
• DTC 144-5 (Backup Alarm Relay Current Below Normal)
• DTC 3700-3 (Loader Bucket Inclinometer Sensor Voltage Above Normal)

Your Cat guy just needs more patience. When viewing logged codes in ET you must have the engine ECM selected. Keep this screen up and do nothing for about 5 minutes. Then try multiple times to clear the codes for another 5 minutes. If it still doesn't work uncheck the "select all ECM's" button. It's clunky I know but it works. Most of those will clear and the engine oil/fuel pump pressure will need factory passwords. Logged codes have no impact on machine performance.

 

[Chrisso]

• 10/29/2022 Replaced engine with CAT Reman
• 09/11/2023 Had CAT come out to an island job to troubleshoot and run a forced regen. It was in limp mode prior, and couldn’t preform a regen

One more thought which could explain the above two points.

Was the DPF included in the reman engine? Was the old Kubota ECM reused with the new engine?

 

[D6braun]

Following up on this issue, went ahead and replaced the engine harness and everything is now working properly. Will try to follow up again after we put some more hours on the machine but I believe the harness was the issue as most folks on this thread speculated.

Also after updating the display software the E60032-2 is no longer displaying, which is nice.

Appreciate everyone's help in diagnosing this issue.

 

[Nige]

….believe the harness was the issue

If the problem has disappeared after only replacing the engine harness and nothing else then “believe” doesn’t come into it. The harness was the problem.