239D cooling issue

[Nige]

Well just remind the dealer of this - it is typical in a fleet application to trend certain parameters over extended periods, sometimes measured in years, in order to get advance warning that something is going pear-shaped, or at least to start looking for reasons why. Coolant temp is one of them. I realise that your machine doesn't have the complex on-board electronics to do what we do, but the principle is the same. If we don't expect a $2m haul truck coolant temp to significantly change over time without going looking for a reason, why should you expect any different with your machine..?

What they said ain't logical, and nobody in their right mind can argue that it is.

 

[jrtraderny]

Well just remind the dealer of this - it is typical in a fleet application to trend certain parameters over extended periods, sometimes measured in years, in order to get advance warning that something is going pear-shaped, or at least to start looking for reasons why. Coolant temp is one of them. I realise that your machine doesn't have the complex on-board electronics to do what we do, but the principle is the same. If we don't expect a $2m haul truck coolant temp to significantly change over time without going looking for a reason, why should you expect any different with your machine..?

What they said ain't logical, and nobody in their right mind can argue that it is.

Nige I'm 63 yrs old and have worked around and on diesel engines all my life and have almost a totally Cat fleet . I have never had an issue like this that couldn't be solved, but they way the service writer acts it's as if if his computer doesn't have an answer then there is nothing wrong. I do know 2 things, I will find an answer to this issue with or without the dealers help and tomorrows meeting may or may not cost his employer a $100K
plus sale and many more.

 

[jrtraderny]

Nige I don't know you or know where you are or what you do but I will tell you this I truly appreciate your knowledge , input and expertise that you hand out freely my friend .

 

[Nige]

Have the conversation with the Sales Manager before you go to speak to the Service Dept..?
That way it gives him chance to call them and let them know which way is up before you arrive.
Either way let us know how it turns out.

 

[Nige]

Nige I don't know you or know where you are or what you do but I will tell you this I truly appreciate your knowledge , input and expertise that you hand out freely my friend .

Age-wise I got you beat by almost 5 years.
Having spent many years working for dealers back in the days when the Cat brand REALLY meant something, experiences like yours with wet behind the ears whippersnappers boils my pi$$ quite frankly.

Most of what I know falls into what I consider to be the "I thought everyone knew that" category...... It still never fails to amaze me that "they" don't, even after all these years.

 

[jrtraderny]

Have the conversation with the Sales Manager before you go to speak to the Service Dept..?
That way it gives him chance to call them and let them know which way is up before you arrive.
Either way let us know how it turns out.

Nige the first call I make tomorrow will be to my salesman who will talk to the sales manager whom I know fairly well , next call will be to my product support guy who is a personal friend. Then I will make an appearance at the service desk and see if the service writers answer and attitude have changed. If needed I have a close personal friend that is friends with the owners.
Now on another note for this machine serial # BL901413 would you know if there is an update either hardware or software for the advanced display that has the date and time like the current models do ?

 

[Nige]

While I was poking around looking for updates I came across this ......... I wonder if it has been installed your machine..? It only came in from the factory at BL91560-Up, so your machine was not originally built with it. I will continue looking for any other info.

Another thought. Drop a PM to Mark250 of this parish in case he hasn't spotted this thread. He's pretty much a whizz on the SSL/MTL/CTL Product Line.

 

[Nige]

Check out this list of software updates. There may be something in there. I highlighted one regarding a real-time clock.

 

[jrtraderny]

Check out this list of software updates. There may be something in there. I highlighted one regarding a real-time clock.

Thanks Nige for the info , I'll let you know how today goes .

 

[kshansen]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that the service writer basically told me that Caterpillar was manufacturing an inferior product that wasn't designed to have a useful life past 900 hours .

What the **&&^%! Are they trying to tell you this is a machine built for homeowner use only? 900 hours would only be six months use at 40 hours a week.

Guess you need to go buy a good used Case 1845C, when I retired back in 2015 the quarry was still abusing the crap out of one they bought in 1989! Tell the salesman that will be your next purchase if they don't eat the BS of the no answer "$1500 worth of diagnostic time" and figure out the problem!

 

[dtcohen]

Ask them to run through the fan calibration procedure while you are there. It only takes a couple of minutes to do it. Min fan speed should be 1000rpm and max fan speed should be 2900rpm, +-50 rpm. The machine has no idea how fast the fan is actually spinning, so you could have them set the max fan speed a little higher than spec to get more airflow. Keep in mind that the fan motor is driven by the charge pump, which is driven at engine speed. If the engine lugs, the charge pump slows down and flow decreases. Less flow out of the charge pump means less flow to the fan motor which causes slower fan speeds.

If you are running a brush cutter and the engine is constantly staying lugged back to 2500rpm, then your max fan speed will also be slower. If you unplug the two wire connector going to the fan solenoid, the fan should go to full speed. Maybe try running it like that for a bit and see if that helps with the temperature issue. It will trigger a diagnostic, but that will go away when you plug the fan back in.

 

[Nige]

If you unplug the two wire connector going to the fan solenoid, the fan should go to full speed. Maybe try running it like that for a bit and see if that helps with the temperature issue. It will trigger a diagnostic, but that will go away when you plug the fan back in.

Very good idea. If you know what the resistance of the solenoid coil is, find a resistor of the same value and install it on a 2-pin connector, then when you disconnect the solenoid plug the resistor in where the fan control solenoid coil normally connects. That way you would get full fan speed without a Diagnostic Code.

 

[dtcohen]

If you know what the resistance of the solenoid coil is, find a resistor of the same value and install it on a 2-pin connector, then when you disconnect the solenoid plug the resistor in where the fan control solenoid coil normally connects. That way you would get full fan speed without a Diagnostic Code.

It would be pretty easy to measure the resistance with a multimeter. If you didn't feel like doing that then I would start with something around 5.3 ohms

 

[jrtraderny]

Ask them to run through the fan calibration procedure while you are there. It only takes a couple of minutes to do it. Min fan speed should be 1000rpm and max fan speed should be 2900rpm, +-50 rpm. The machine has no idea how fast the fan is actually spinning, so you could have them set the max fan speed a little higher than spec to get more airflow. Keep in mind that the fan motor is driven by the charge pump, which is driven at engine speed. If the engine lugs, the charge pump slows down and flow decreases. Less flow out of the charge pump means less flow to the fan motor which causes slower fan speeds.

If you are running a brush cutter and the engine is constantly staying lugged back to 2500rpm, then your max fan speed will also be slower. If you unplug the two wire connector going to the fan solenoid, the fan should go to full speed. Maybe try running it like that for a bit and see if that helps with the temperature issue. It will trigger a diagnostic, but that will go away when you plug the fan back in.

I picked machine up yesterday from dealer , they did do the fan calibration on it they also installed some new software . I will have the mower on it later this week and it will be close to 90 here so we'll see what happens.
I have already run the machine with electric unplugged and it did help. Still seems odd to me that it went from 185 - 195 all day long to 205 - 208 basically overnight. The dealer did tell me I was doing a good job in keeping the radiator clear .