216b skidsteer COMPLETE Hydraulic failure

[MiJo]

Thanks for the diagrams Heymccall. That at least gives me something to check and a good source of information. You wouldn't happen to have a disassembly & assembly procedure for that specific pump would you?

 

[Nige]

You wouldn't happen to have a disassembly & assembly procedure for that specific pump would you?

That was covered earlier. There isn't a D&A procedure relating to your specific pump Part Number as far as I can see. The one I posted on Page 1 was of a very similar pump.

 

[MiJo]

I appreciate that Nige and thank you for the procedure you sent, I was just double checking to see if Heymccall may happen to have access to something different.

 

[Nige]

Gotcha. All i can tell you is that there is nothing in the Cat system relating to the D&A of that pump.

 

[ahart]

Here’s what I found on disassembly instructions for your hystat pump, @Nige correct me if I’m wrong here.

 

[MiJo]

Awesome. Thanks a lot ahart! That certainly looks like the correct pump.

 

[Nige]

Here’s what I found on disassembly instructions for your hystat pump, @Nige correct me if I’m wrong here.

That's it..!
I'm baffled as to why I couldn't find it before because the same document popped up on the system for me just now using the OP's Serial Number.

 

[Zewnten]

That’s SIS for you. Temperamental

 

[Vetech63]

Looks like high pressure in the case drain system. Restriction maybe, or the high loop is leaking more than the case drain can handle. Did it operate good until the leak?

 

[Nige]

That’s SIS2.0 for you. Temperamental

Fixed that for you........ The new system is a lot more temperamental than the former version.

 

[ahart]

Off topic but I like SIS2.0 way better than the old version. Probably a generational thing.

 

[Nige]

Off topic but I like SIS2.0 way better than the old version. Probably a generational thing.

FWIW now that I've got used to it I like it better than the older version as well. There are still a few gripes for me though. For example: -
1. It doesn't accept Boolean search terms (e.g. "speed sensor") and find all the instances of where those two exact words pop up in that order.
2. If you search for a word such as "neutralizer" it will also throw up anywhere that "neutral" or "neutralize" show up. Why..?
3. I'd still like to be able search as it was on legacy SIS where you could specify a group of machines first - narrowing down the field if you will. That's still not possible on SIS2.0.

Rant over.........

 

[ahart]

Yes some search features could be improved, though legacy sis you could literally search for something and yield 0 results but find the exact phrase you searched for by combing through. SIS has always been about knowing the phrasing and back alleys in order to navigate quickly. It helps to have a working knowledge of the machine you’re looking parts up for as well. I don’t know how some of the young parts counter guys ever catch on to it.

 

[MiJo]

Did it operate good until the leak?

yes the skidsteer worked great until the leak. I was just warming up the unit (maybe 10 minutes) and then noticed the hydraulic fluid gushing out it.

 

[Mobiltech]

I will take the older version of sis any day. I have tried 2.0 but it just feels foreign.
It definitely helps to know the cat terminology. Like pump group fuel injection meaning unit injector.

 

[MiJo]

Hello. Its been a while but i finally have the pump back in my skidsteer and ready for start up. I talked with a CAT service tech and he stated it was likely just the seal that failed based on the hours on the unit and the findings from the filter exam. He basically said try that and see what happens...As such, I replaced the seal and fingers crossed that will be the ticket... Couple questions for you before I test it out.
1. I have a good source of Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W40 Diesel Oil. It seems to meet all the specs in the manual for the Hydraulic Fluid requirements. Would it be Ok to refill and use this oil for my Hydraulics?
2. Since I had the pump out and all hydraulic lines off, is there any issue with air locks or methods for purging the lines I need to be aware of?
As always, any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ThreeCW]

Hi MiJo.

I "assume" that your location of FSJ means Fort Saint John, BC ... which means cold winter weather.

If I am "assuming" correctly, you will want to match your hydraulic fluid selection with your ambient operating temperature, which for FSJ can be -40 C (-40 F) or colder.

But I will back up a bit first and tell you about when I made a hydraulic repair to my 2006 242B and had to replace about 25 litres of hydraulic fluid.

My Operation and Maintenance Manual states that the Hydraulic Tank Refill Capacity for the 216B and 242B is 35 L / 9.3 USG.

I was not able to find any specification for the Total Hydraulic System in my manual but did stumble across the Hydraulic System Capacity of 55 L in a CAT 232B 242B brochure from 2004. The brochure also confirmed the Hydraulic Tank capacity of 35 L.

My concern was that if I replaced 25 L of fluid in my Hydraulic Tank, there would still be 30 L of original fluid left in the system. I did investigate a total system flush option which was not easy or efficient to perform from my research here on HEF. Long story short, I also considered using Rotella T6 0W-40 or 5W-40 as a DEO (Diesel Engine Oil) option that was shown in the hydraulic system lubrication options of my manual, but I was concerned on fluid incompatibilities between the existing hydraulic fluid and diesel engine oil.

I decided use CAT Hydro Advanced 10 instead which would be compatible with the original fill of CAT Hydro fluid. CAT Hydro Advanced 10 costs about C$8.40 per L compared to Rotella T6 Synthetic at C$7.50 to C$8 per L, so much the same cost wise without the concern on fluid incompatibility.

Back to cold weather options, CAT Hydro Advanced is recommended down to -20 C (-4 F) and has a pour point of -39 C (-38 F) which I found was acceptable for our climate near Calgary. We rarely dip down to -40 C (-40 F), but I typically don’t use my 242B in those temperatures and will have it in a heated garage if low temperatures are expected.

Other cold weather options that come to mind include:

CAT Bio Hydro Advanced – rated to -30 C (-22 F) at C$23 per L

CAT TDTO Cold Weather SAE 0W20 – rated to -40 C (-40F) at C$11.20 per L


Find attached some CAT Technical Fluids information for your review.

P.S. - Could your pump seal failure be associated with cold temperature operations with a hydraulic fluid not rated for cold temperatures? i.e. Too thick to pump during a cold start and a seal blows?

Have a look at page 29 of the attached SEBU6250 for hydraulic fluid temperature ratings.

 

[Nige]

I "assume" that your location of FSJ means Fort Saint John, BC ... which means cold winter weather.

If I am "assuming" correctly, you will want to match your hydraulic fluid selection with your ambient operating temperature, which for FSJ can be -40 C (-40 F) or colder.

A couple of things you omitted in your assumptions is whether or not the machine is stored inside out of the weather, and whether or not the OP plans on operating it in ambient temperatures as low as you mention. The fluid viscosities mentioned in the manual are only really applicable to “cold-soaked” starting down to the ambient temperature mentioned.

 

[MiJo]

Thanls fro the info ThreeCW. Yes, Im in Fort St John and as you stated it does get bitterly cold. I try not to operate my equioment if its below -25C but sometimes its a must. My skidsteer lives outside and has the block heater plugged in so it certainly does get cold soaked.
I never thought about the cross contamination of the residual hydro fluid in the machine. I guess I will just play it safe and stick with the Cat Hydo 10.

Just curious if anyone has tips on start up/purging the hydraulic lines or if this is necessary? I never split the pump apart so there is still likely some residual fluid in there for the initial start up to buffer metal on metal contact.

 

[Nige]

Just curious if anyone has tips on start up/purging the hydraulic lines or if this is necessary?

The hydraulic tank oil level/outlet is above the level of the pump inlet, correct.?
If so then oil should gravity-feed into the pump when you fill the tank.
Regarding the outlet I would suggest that you initially crank the engine over for a couple of seconds at a time for a few cycles without allowing it to start. Loosen a couple of outlet lines and wait to see oil at that location, then tighten the connections and go on to start the engine.
Are you working on the machine inside or outside.?

My skidsteer lives outside and has the block heater plugged in so it certainly does get cold soaked.

The engine won't be cold-soaked if you keep the machine outside and use a block heater but the hydraulic system certainly will.

I never thought about the cross contamination of the residual hydro fluid in the machine.

So long as what you add is basically compatible with the HYDO 10 you have in there right now there will be no issue. Either TDTO-TMS or TDTO Cold Weather are 100% compatible with HYDO 10, they simply contain more additives for transmission service.