2020 Deere 333g hydraulic oil overheating

[Billyg371]

Little update that isn’t really great. Ran it today with a root rake grapple and saw 175 hydraulic temps and 195 coolant temps. I’m getting very frustrated.

 

[KSSS]

Having read back through all of this, the problem has to be the fan or maybe the radiator. The heat problem fluctuates between hyd. and engine coolant. The reason the hyd temps stayed down this time was because the grapple bucket presents little resistance. I think MG's is on the right track pointing out that the pump that spins the fan was never actually checked. I don't envy you, hopefully the dealer will continue to work with you, however at some point they are going to cut you off whether that machine is fixed or not. I hope I am wrong, but by the dealer claiming it works as it should, tells me that day is getting close. Your probably going to have to make some financially painful decisions pretty soon. Pay someone else to work through this, trade the machine off on something else.

 

[Billyg371]

Having read back through all of this, the problem has to be the fan or maybe the radiator. The heat problem fluctuates between hyd. and engine coolant. The reason the hyd temps stayed down this time was because the grapple bucket presents little resistance. I think MG's is on the right track pointing out that the pump that spins the fan was never actually checked. I don't envy you, hopefully the dealer will continue to work with you, however at some point they are going to cut you off whether that machine is fixed or not. I hope I am wrong, but by the dealer claiming it works as it should, tells me that day is getting close. Your probably going to have to make some financially painful decisions pretty soon. Pay someone else to work through this, trade the machine off on something else.

So another thing I had found is that I do not have 3/4 couplers. I have stock couplers on the machine. But I’m going to measure today to make sure. If anyone would like to help me brainstorm or just talk me off the ledge my number is 570-956-2081. I’m going to be working all day day, hopefully in the machine

 

[mg2361]

We see many of these machines with this complaint. We have one in the shop now. Overheats when running a cold planer. We fix EVERY one of them successfully. There has to be a thoughtful systematic approach to troubleshooting these units. The obvious is checked like coolant level and condition, radiator cleanliness, baffles in place, fan turning, etc (we have seen many simple causes), but the red flag for me is the OP mentioned in post #18 that the fan stopped turning. The ONLY reason for the fan to stop turning is debris in the system. That fan HAS to be turning, always. The software never commands a fan to stop (except when reversing). So, what debris and where did it come from? That is why return screens and filters have to be inspected. Flow tests performed on the charge pump (have seen these fail) and possibly the main hydraulic pump and the high flow pump (have seen some failures with these causing the debris also). We have also seen our fair share of drive motor failures causing debris. So there are a lot of variables that have to be eliminated to reach a successful conclusion.

After reading the tech's service report, someone just assumed the fix was the fan motor/blade update. Yes, many times that is the fix, but only when all the other variables have been eliminated.

Run that thing until the alarm goes off, shoot a picture of the temperature, take that to the dealer and show them there is still an issue.

Good luck with your machine. I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[Vetech63]

We see many of these machines with this complaint. We have one in the shop now. Overheats when running a cold planer. We fix EVERY one of them successfully. There has to be a thoughtful systematic approach to troubleshooting these units. The obvious is checked like coolant level and condition, radiator cleanliness, baffles in place, fan turning, etc (we have seen many simple causes), but the red flag for me is the OP mentioned in post #18 that the fan stopped turning. The ONLY reason for the fan to stop turning is debris in the system. That fan HAS to be turning, always. The software never commands a fan to stop (except when reversing). So, what debris and where did it come from? That is why return screens and filters have to be inspected. Flow tests performed on the charge pump (have seen these fail) and possibly the main hydraulic pump and the high flow pump (have seen some failures with these causing the debris also). We have also seen our fair share of drive motor failures causing debris. So there are a lot of variables that have to be eliminated to reach a successful conclusion.

After reading the tech's service report, someone just assumed the fix was the fan motor/blade update. Yes, many times that is the fix, but only when all the other variables have been eliminated.

Run that thing until the alarm goes off, shoot a picture of the temperature, take that to the dealer and show them there is still an issue.

Good luck with your machine. I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Very much agree! ..........and remember, a mulcher's flow requirements are very different from a grapple and the way they operate hydraulically is apples and oranges.

 

[KSSS]

So another thing I had found is that I do not have 3/4 couplers. I have stock couplers on the machine. But I’m going to measure today to make sure. If anyone would like to help me brainstorm or just talk me off the ledge my number is 570-956-2081. I’m going to be working all day day, hopefully in the machine

One of the photos shows the coupler as .75 . Because the issue fluctuates between coolant and hyd, and they both cool by use of the fan, the fan is common denominator. I don't think it has anything to do with the couplers. Maybe you ask MG2361, if he is willing, speak to your service manager and lay out for them how to get to the bottom of the issue. It would be time well spent for the dealership, beyond just this machine.

 

[Billyg371]

We see many of these machines with this complaint. We have one in the shop now. Overheats when running a cold planer. We fix EVERY one of them successfully. There has to be a thoughtful systematic approach to troubleshooting these units. The obvious is checked like coolant level and condition, radiator cleanliness, baffles in place, fan turning, etc (we have seen many simple causes), but the red flag for me is the OP mentioned in post #18 that the fan stopped turning. The ONLY reason for the fan to stop turning is debris in the system. That fan HAS to be turning, always. The software never commands a fan to stop (except when reversing). So, what debris and where did it come from? That is why return screens and filters have to be inspected. Flow tests performed on the charge pump (have seen these fail) and possibly the main hydraulic pump and the high flow pump (have seen some failures with these causing the debris also). We have also seen our fair share of drive motor failures causing debris. So there are a lot of variables that have to be eliminated to reach a successful conclusion.

After reading the tech's service report, someone just assumed the fix was the fan motor/blade update. Yes, many times that is the fix, but only when all the other variables have been eliminated.

Run that thing until the alarm goes off, shoot a picture of the temperature, take that to the dealer and show them there is still an issue.

Good luck with your machine. I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

I agree with all of this. If you can give me a buzz I would greatly appreciate it. 570-956-2081.

 

[mg2361]

First thing that needs to be done is make it overheat (pictures, pictures, pictures) so there is evidence the overheat issue is still there, or the dealer will be blowing you off. If you cannot make it hot enough to overheat, you may have to wait until ambient gets high enough to help drive the temp over the top.

Maybe you ask MG2361, if he is willing, speak to your service manager and lay out for them how to get to the bottom of the issue.

If you can give me a buzz

I am not inclined to intrude into your dealer's domain. They can be very sensitive to intrusion from another dealer individual. Much of the information they need is already published by Deere in the manuals, in DTAC solutions as well as using some common sense.

 

[Billyg371]

First thing that needs to be done is make it overheat (pictures, pictures, pictures) so there is evidence the overheat issue is still there, or the dealer will be blowing you off. If you cannot make it hot enough to overheat, you may have to wait until ambient gets high enough to help drive the temp over the top.


I am not inclined to intrude into your dealer's domain. They can be very sensitive to intrusion from another dealer individual. Much of the information they need is already published by Deere in the manuals, in DTAC solutions as well as using some common sense.

Yeah I definitely can make it overheat. I was just looking to talk with you over the phone to run though everything that has gone on. And possible bounce some ideas off of you. With your knowledge I gather that you’re a tech yourself.

 

[Billyg371]

Called the dealer this morning and spoke to the service manager. Told him that it was still overheating even after going slow. He also said I should be able to go all day and not have an issue. I sent an email with photos of temps and suggestions from the responses here. He said he is going to do some digging and talk to a couple other locations they have to figure out what they need to do next. Hopefully I will have a working machine soon! I will keep everyone updated. Thank you!

 

[Billyg371]

Update! Finally received my machine back from the dealer. Had to reach out to Deere directly to get anything done. Deere had them perform a bunch of tests and came to the conclusion the thermal bypass valve under the cab was getting stuck closed allowing hot fluid back into the tank. Replaced valve and all new hydraulic oil and filter as well. Ran it today for probably 7 hours in 87 degree temps and hydraulic fluid never got above 188. Coolant temp was also good around 190-195.
However, I had a little scare with debris smoldering in the belly pan directly underneath the engine. I luckily caught it quick enough to put some water down there and drop the access place to get it out before anything bad happened. Any tips on what I need to do to keep this thing from burning up on me? Especially now that it’s running great.

 

[Simon C]

All that I have heard is that when mulching the engine compartment needs to be blown out every 4 hours or chance burning it down. Fine dust builds up and ignites. I have seen lots of pictures of burnt 333G or 331G machines. Blow out , refuel, grease ,inspect mulcher, and carry on is the message I read. I own a 332G on wheel but have never used a mulcher. But can tell you that on 80F day with my land leveller working full tilt on large lots the engine temp goes up to 200F and 185F on hydraulics fairly fast.
Cools down fast if revved up and not moving for 5 minutes.
Simon C

 

[Billyg371]

All that I have heard is that when mulching the engine compartment needs to be blown out every 4 hours or chance burning it down. Fine dust builds up and ignites. I have seen lots of pictures of burnt 333G or 331G machines. Blow out , refuel, grease ,inspect mulcher, and carry on is the message I read. I own a 332G on wheel but have never used a mulcher. But can tell you that on 80F day with my land leveller working full tilt on large lots the engine temp goes up to 200F and 185F on hydraulics fairly fast.
Cools down fast if revved up and not moving for 5 minutes.
Simon C

I do “blow it out” but I guess I’m not doing it correctly? Maybe someone can give me a procedure or something because the stuff that is smoldering in mine is directly under the oil pan. Only way to get it out is to pull the access panel and reach in there to scoop out.

 

[Simon C]

Some junk can get in behind the engine on the sloped steel leading down to the bottom pan of machine.
It has a hole about 2.5 inches in size on back side to access front engine mount on bottom side. I drilled 2 holes and put a plate over that hole with threads in the bolt holes. No more dirt or chips entering into engine compartment.
Simon C

 

[Billyg371]

Some junk can get in behind the engine on the sloped steel leading down to the bottom pan of machine.
It has a hole about 2.5 inches in size on back side to access front engine mount on bottom side. I drilled 2 holes and put a plate over that hole with threads in the bolt holes. No more dirt or chips entering into engine compartment.
Simon C

Do you mind sending a few photos? I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks

 

[Simon C]

Will try to get a picture in next couple days as machine is not in my yard. Stored at a friends place.
Was going to mention that when you are mulching there is fine powder in the air that will suck into the engine compartment, but if you find any areas between body and frame that will let air pass through, try to block with soft foam between.
Mulching is bad, but try spreading fine gravel in the winter that is dry with clay silt in it. After a few buckets of spreading it out very thinly the dust covers the machine 1/8 of an inch from top to bottom.
Have to blow it off every second bucket load. If you wet it it just turns to runny mud.
I don't see any way out totally of your blowing it out.
Will send picture as soon as I get it.
Simon C

 

[mg2361]

There are many places for debris to enter. Deere does offer a high debris kit for those machine's. We have installed several of them. Funny thing is, I don't recall anything plugging that opening at the rear engine mount. I looked through the kit instructions and could not find anything about that. Even with the kit, occasional cleaning will be required, just not as often.

 

[Simon C]

Here is the picture of the back of my 2022 332G with an extra plate dead center of the bottom that I drilled and tapped two 8mm holes for a cover over the hole. You will also see the screen I built and added to the back to prevent anything from ever damaging my hydraulic fan.
Sorry for taking so long as the machine is not at my house and I was overly busy.
Simon C

 

[KSSS]

Great job on the screen, its odd that Deere doesn't deflect the vents downward. I could see tree limbs going straight into the machine.

 

[Simon C]

Tree branches have to bend some to get past the OEM guard. But if it does and hits the fan hope you have lots of spare money, and down time. Hence I put in a Ty-Wrapped screen to give the extra protection. I have 3/8 black rubber hose split down the middle and on top of original louvers in between for a cushion and to prevent vibration noise.
Simon C