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2000 Snorkel Lift TB-50 - Deutz F3L-1011F

Discussion in 'Forklifts/Telehandlers' started by ArchRec, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. ArchRec

    ArchRec New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Franklin, Ohio
    Having several issues w/ a 2000 Snorkel Lift TB-50 w/ a Deutz F3L 1011F…

    A) Incline Issue - The machine struggles w/ inclines, especially when attempting to load the machine onto a trailer for transport, and struggles w/ turning on inclines. An older TB-50 Snorkelift Ops Manual notes, when it comes to inclines: 1) use high rpm w/ low speed settings. 2) don’t attempt inclines > than 25 degs. (which doesn’t help when loading the machine onto a trailer for transport). In addition, our TB-50 has several quick attach ports (name?) -similar to connecting an air hose to air compressor- for reading hydraulic PSI output(s). I attached a hydraulic test gauge to the hydraulic pump port and attempted to record psi readings for as many of the machines functions / combinations of that I could think of. Another of the manuals I uncovered, for models produced 4 years post our TB-50 (2000) had 500 hour inspection hydraulic pump PSI output readings notated in it. Granted, the info may not have been the same (different pump / F4L vs F3L Deutz etc.), our machine well beyond 500 hrs (just passing 4000 hrs), etc. Nonetheless, the readings weren’t even close… our machine being far less than what the manual indicated as acceptable.

    B) Start-up Issue - No matter the ambient air or engine temp... the engine starts, runs rough (like its missing) for 5-30 secs, then seems to smooth out. With no previous MX records on this machine's, I started w/ the basics… changing fluids, filters, etc. I just noticed yesterday that the inline fuel filter is dirty, will change that out. However, fuel flow (prior to fuel pump seems ok). I have consulted numerous individuals on the rough start issue (1 diesel mechanic even)… some think it’s related to: 1) low compression 2) clogged injectors 3) bad fuel pump 4) old diesel. Any suggestion on which of these potential issues, less old diesel, to start with? I can test compression, but am still looking for the appropriately sized adapter? Does anyone know the size?

    Perhaps there is a correlation between the rough start and the hill climbing issue?

    Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank You. -Nick
     
  2. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,619
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    There is not enough information to make a proper diagnosis here. Leaking injectors can drip fuel on top of the piston when the engine isn't running which can cause the hard start and rough running you are describing. The excess fuel is basically choking the engine on start up and the cylinders are having to clear the excess fuel before it starts to halfway run right. The atomization of the fuel into the cylinder can be effected because if the injector tips are leaking fuel, that is fuel lost that cant be atomized. I would say at this point in time that your injectors are probably junk. REPLACE ALL 3!! would be the cheapest option. If you have a fuel lab in your area they can check your old injectors against the specs so you can be sure before you but new ones.
     
    ArchRec and mg2361 like this.
  3. Txhayseed

    Txhayseed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Texas
    So running rough... during this period are you smoking. If so what color. Is it hard starting like you have to keep on it to fire off or do you start but idle ruff ? Like vetech said more info is needed. As far as your driving issue goes down load the service manual and get to the traction manifold and follow the test procedure and start there first. Get a baseline so you can establish where you can start. Do you know if your actually going into stowed mode or possibly stuck in low speed drive. Issues like this can be easy to complex but we need a more complete picture with some numbers to help you dial in to what’s going on.
     
    ArchRec likes this.
  4. ArchRec

    ArchRec New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Franklin, Ohio
    Vetech63 & Txhayseed - Thank you both for the feedback... very much appreciated!
    10/3 – UPDATE:

    Rough Start Issue – Starts (hand-off key), idles rough (5-30 secs), then smooths out.
    1) Engine does SMOKE upon start-up... something I failed to note above. Though I have an untrained eye in such matters, I believe the color of the smoke was predominately black.
    2) I spoke w/ an authorized Deutz mechanic who was very helpful regarding the rough start issue (FYI - called the name of the firm that was on a sticker on the engine cover: Diesel Power Equipment – NE & MO). He noted that my problem is LIKELY 1 of 2 things: A) Compromised Fuel Line(s). B) Faulty Check Valve in Fuel Pump. I proceeded to check fuel lines and discovered several pieces of fuel line that were leaking (dry rot). Changing these lines, I noticed significant improvement w/ the issue. At the same time, I also noticed a leaking of around 1 of the 3 injectors (as Vetech63 noted). Thus, I plan to change out the injectors and hopefully the matter will be completely resolved.

    Incline / Hydraulic Drive Issue – Can’t take inclines.
    TxHayseed: Excellent question…. I have noticed that a hydraulic manifold is leaking and it remains unclear as to what purpose this manifold serves (I found it in the parts manual, but its purpose isn’t defined). Further, now that you mention it, the last time I test drove the machine I caught myself debating whether or not there was a noticeable difference between the 2 drive modes, despite having cycled through both. I didn’t think there was, but I’m not terribly intimate w/ the machine either. Perhaps there is a connection? I will investigate.
     
  5. Txhayseed

    Txhayseed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Texas
    Glad your on track to get one of your issues resolved. Keep us posted so we can try our best to help
    You resolve the other.
     
  6. ArchRec

    ArchRec New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Franklin, Ohio
    10/14 – Update.

    A) Incline Climb Issue – Txhayseed… confirming your thoughts on the machine being stuck in 1 of the 2 drive modes (it is in fact, NOT, cycling between Hi & Low Drive mode). Example: the machine was loaded onto a trailer to haul to a job site yesterday. However, it could not drive itself up the trailer ramp. The boom was used as an aid… pushing the machine up the ramp (obviously not a good “long term” solution). Per your suggestion, I will begin looking into the Traction Manifold. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated J.

    B) Rough Start Issue – I replaced several portions of fuel line, the inline fuel filter, and the O-Ring in the #3 (most aft) fuel injector. The rough start issue seemed to be resolved, and the fuel leak coming from the #3 injector was resolved. However, after allowing the machine sit for several days, upon start-up, the rough start issue remains (Though much improved). I am of the opinion now that there is an issue with the fuel pump (perhaps the check valve is allowing fuel to leak back into the tank… as previously noted?).

    FYI - The machine went out on a job today (10/14/2020). Thus, I will keep this thread up to speed on these matters the next opportunity I have to work on it.

    Thank you all again.