1998 Deere 590D excavator keeps burning up starters

[kpk250]

Hi,
I'm trying to figure out why a 1998 Deere 590D excavator keeps burning up starters. The original starter died slowly after an audible click was heard when the ignition switch was turned and a tap of a hammer got it to turn over a few times. Eventually it died. An aftermarket starter lasted for 10-20 starts until one day we heard a screeching/squealing sound after about 5 minutes of running the engine and shut it down. Upon trying to restart the engine a couple of minutes later we heard a clicking sound of the solenoid but it didn't crank over. At that point we thought that maybe the ignition switch stuck in the start position and the starter was turning the whole time. We also smelled a burned electronics smell around the starter area. So a third starter was installed. The switch was turned to start and deliberately back to run, the engine started and it ran for a few minutes. Then smoke was seen coming from one of the ports of the starter and it died. After that third starter was removed the armature doesn't turn at all.

Any suggestions of where to start or how to diagnose this?

Thanks

 

[Former Wrench]

This is coming in from way out in left field, but I wonder if you have the correct starter. It almost sounds to me that the starter gear is not completely disengaging from the ring gear.

 

[funwithfuel]

Do you by chance have an aftermarket gps with start disable function or geo-fencing. Sometimes, these control units will hold the start relay engaged. You may also want to swap your existing start relay. Having someone crank it o er while you measure voltage at crank wire would also tell you if the circuit is remaining energized.

 

[Bls repair]

Sounds like starter not disengaging. Could have many causes,solenoid hanging up bendix getting stuck in flywheel,power not shutting off to starter

 

[Bls repair]

Is the starter solenoid clocked to the same position as the original one

 

[wilko]

Are your two replacements the same brand? Where are they from?

 

[walkerv]

Hey yall first question im going to ask the op is what brand of aftermarket starter do you have , i have seen some pretty bad aftermarket reman junk over the years , even new after market junk. Is the cross reference bad ? There is so many questions ? Certain things i dont cheap out on it costs more in the long run especially pain in the butt starters.

 

[007]

The symptom you described for your original starter is typically worn out brushes which hitting with hammer allowed a little more movement of the brushes.
The symptom you described for the last two starters is classic starter pinion not disengaging from the ring gear.
This can be caused by a raft of causes but the most common are as follows.

The solenoid being held in electrically by some thing in your wiring.

The iron plunger in the solenoid can become wedged and locked into the solenoid mechanically.
I have seen this caused by rust, moisture swelling the winding's, and people cranking to long can over heat the solenoid winding forcing the tub to be reduced in size.
Refurbished starters sometimes have very badly worn tubes as the plunger vibrates and wears the tube from long hours of engine run time.

Most starters are four pole with four winding's installed into the carcass of the starter.
Not all but very common is to have three poles wired in series and one in parallel.
Easy to see as the parallel has fine wires compared to the other three.
It is that pole that is designed to magnetically slow the armature down after the engine starts and allows the pinion to disengage the ring gear.
You need to compare the new starters with your old and confirm they are (exactly) the same.

 

[thepumpguysc]

You said the aftermarket sol. started squealing after 5 minutes of engine running..
The starter, as you prob. know IS NOT energized after engine start..
Which means yours IS engaged while the engine is running.
Diagnose per post #3 & report back.. please..
Is your engine "hard to start" & your heating the starter from the git-go.??
IF your engine doesn't start by a count of " 4 onethousand".. you probably have a "hard start" issue..

 

[kpk250]

Guys thank you very much for the input. Looks like I have some homework to do. I'm not in front of the machine currently. I understand your questions fundamentally, but the procedures to do so are a little vague to me.

Am I checking voltage to the solenoid or the starter when I turn the ignition key to start?

And is there an easy way to determine which terminal on the starter is the starter and which is the solenoid? I don't have it in front of me but I seem to remember there were two connections in roughly the same place on the starter. I understand the solenoid is in line with the gear shaft and the starter motor sits parallel offset to the solenoid.

 

[funwithfuel]

Under normal circumstances, you will have a heavy cable attached to a 10mm or better stud. That will be battery feed. Then you will have a much lighter 14/16 ga wire on a stud or spade, all by itself. That is where you are measuring voltage. Should be only hot in crank.
I get the impression you are not very cofortable with this. There's no shame in asking someone for help, who's been down this road. It's very easy to overlook hazards when you don't know they're there.

 

[007]

Your first test (and probably the most likely cause) is to determine if something is keeping power on the small wire on your solenoid.
Its a little difficult as you need to be at the ignition key and the starter at the same time.
Since you have already stated it operated 10 to 20 times before the problem occurred its even more of a challenge as its a intermittent fault.
My suggestion would be to attach a temporary wire to that small wire and run it over into the cab of the machine.
In the cab you can wire to a small bulb and the other side to ground.
With starter number four installed you can watch that light for a few weeks and you should only see the light illuminate when you are cranking the engine.
If you see that light stay on when the key is returned to the run position stop the engine immediately.
If the problem is present you can remove the small wire from the starter so it does not want to keep cranking.
This will give you time to investigate why or what is powering that wire.
If you are in the middle of a job you could remove the wire and bridge the starter to get going again only if you felt confident of all the safety issues.
If it is an electrical issue the first places i would be looking is a faulty ignition switch or the starter slave relay with its contacts being welded together.
Very unlikely to be a wiring issue.
PS maybe wise to put an inline fuse in that wire close to the starter with small amp fuse.

 

[kpk250]

Ok I got it. I'll report back with some feedback. Thank you.

 

[Vetech63]

When you pull the starter next time, check your flywheel ring gear. look for chipped, ground, or severely worn teeth. You will need to rotate the engine all the way around and check the entire ring gear. You could , if you have enough battery cable and wire, hook up your starter motor but do not bolt it to the engine and engage your starter to see if it stops turning when you let the key off the start position. Depending on how your starter is grounded, you may need to ground it externally with a set of jumper cables. This may be the best way for you if you don't have a good understanding of troubleshooting electrical systems. If you do this, post your results and you can get help from there.

 

[Tinkerer]

Check the the starter pinon gear for the correct number of teeth. Bad things happen if it has the wrong tooth count. I had it happen more than once with replacement starters.

 

[JPV]

FWIW I have replaced 2 key switches in excavators for that reason, starter not disengaging and burning up in short order, one in a 490E John Deere and one in a 160 Link Belt.

 

[CDNDIESELMONKEY]

Make sure it is a 24volt starter. Some 12 volt starters will fit perfectly..

 

[DMiller]

Also depends on the battery/charging circuit. If the battery is weak and amps go up on dropping volts the contacts could be welding in. Should be hard 12.8 or better in the batteries prior to start and the alternator charging at minimum 13.6 and no more than .8v drop across cables.