1975 Case 580B - first back - now a backhoe mechanic

[Backbreaker Hoe]

Hi,

General post here, but first I'd like to thank this site for all the valuable information I've found. I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten this far without so much great information on this site about backhoes and mine also.

Was looking for a backhoe that I can pull stumps, build driveway and trench services such as electric and cable. Have a place in the beautiful woods of N.E. Iowa. So, I plunged back in early March of this year and bought the tractor. I knew the backhoe drooped, the shuttle shift didn't feel so strong - but that motor was solid and strong, so I pulled the trigger.

I've -

Replaced starter - Bendix was going out in original.
Replaced exhaust manifold, extender and muffler.
Changed engine oil.
Changed shuttle shift fluid / drilled hole in TC for clean out of pickup tube.
Changed transmission / diff fluid.
Changed transmission, engine, hydraulic, air filters.
Fixed one down rigger pin.
Repaired one (right side) front end loader hydraulic cylinder (to be fair my son did it for me, he's a diesel mechanic).

Here is what's left:

New tires - all 4.
Repair backhoe ?? Droops fast, dipper, extenda-hoe, one outrigger etc...can hear it creek and crack as it's going down.
Fix one more pin - poor welding job by a previous owner.

We've dug a few stumps with it, did just fine, it's not the fastest machine in the world, but it's tough and gets the work done.

So - being a 100% newbie in this heavy equipment game - having always been a shade tree mechanic - what else should I be doing to this tractor? Anything I'm doing wrong? My son thinks I'm repairing things like the exhaust manifold, but when I pulled the old one, 2 bolts broke. So maybe the old man is crazy? Maybe crazy like a fox?

I would sure welcome advice - what to watch out for - what to ignore, what to attend to....

 

[franklin2]

I didn't see any grease in your list, though I am sure you have greased it correct? That might get rid of some of the creaking and groaning. I have a 480c, which I think is a little brother to yours, but mine was somewhat taken care of in the early part of it's life, but well used also. I have places where the main boom has been welded, so you might want to look for cracks here and there, I had a guy tell me this is normal for a machine that has been worked hard in rocky ground.

I also pulled the floorboards out(what a pain that is) to work on my brakes, and I noticed the very thick main frame that goes down either side of the transaxle has been welded on one side, and has cracked on the other. Mine creaks and pops when I get a hard pull on the bucket, and I am thinking that one side of the frame that has not been repaired yet is causing the noise.

I haven't put my floorboard back in yet, I just use it without it being there. But when I get to the point of putting it back in, I think I am going to split it down the middle and weld tabs on it so I can take it out in two pieces.

 

[hosspuller]

"...can hear it creek and crack as it's going down..."
Needs some grease in the pins.

Lot's of slop ? new pins & bushings will tighten it up.

Wear safety glasses. I Got sprayed with oil from a busted hose digging a stump.

Remember the flex ring in the injection pump. At that age, it's sure to go out eventually. HEF member, pumpguysc can help you with it. His advice to me was spot on.

Have fun with it.

 

[Tinkerer]

Welcome to HEF BH !
The backhoe droops ? Please explain what it that means.
Boom cylinder may need repacking. If it is creeping down.

 

[Backbreaker Hoe]

Thanks franklin2 and hosspuller - yes, gone through two tubes of grease so far. Have only had one of the 4 floorboards up so far. Plan on taking all 4 next weekend for an inspection.

Might add - changing the TC fluid - really improved both speed and strength of tractor when pushing through dirt to pick it up. Starter also works perfect now.

The previous owner told me when he filled up the radiator, about 1/3 would come back out in spill over tube. Not sure what's up with that either.

I'll look tonight at my shop manual for the flex ring. Also, great advice on the oil spray - hasn't happened yet....I can imagine at those pressures it could easily take an eye out or do damage.

I think it's a Case 33 backhoe - extandahoe. Yes, slop in the bucket but not too much elsewhere. I may replace bucket if I can find a used one in decent condition - mine's been welded on - two of the teeth have also been welded on where the remainder still use pins.

Brakes work surprisingly well - previous owner told me the old farmer he bought it from had replaced pads just before he bought it. Which would make the brake job about 2-3 years old and explains why.

I'm mostly worried that the droop in the backhoe is caused by spool valves - and I'll need to drop the back-hoe from the tractor, dig into those, remove and take the entire unit into Case and have them rebuild on bench - and that might be, shall we say - pricey.

 

[Backbreaker Hoe]

Here is a few photos of the old girl - starter job and exhaust manifold job.

New Manifold and extender stack


1975 Case 580B on the farm...


Rear view

 

[Backbreaker Hoe]

Thanks Tinkerer -

What I mean by drooping by example:

Example 1 - Backhoe up and locked - right outrigger pulled all the way up, shut tractor off, it droops about 1/2 way down then pretty much stops. About 1-2 min.

Example 2 - Backhoe up and locked - bucket will be retracted all the way, shut tractor off, will drop about 1/3 way down, then stops. About 1-2 min or less. Same for extenda-hoe also BTW.

Example 3 - Backhoe unlocked - running or stopped - extend hoe all the way out - bucket off ground say 6-10 feet in air. Wait - entire unit drops down fairly fast until bucket reaches ground. About 2-3 min. This is when I can hear it making creeking and cracking noises - which I'm assuming is the oil blowing by some valve or seal?

So - in my newbie mind - that's drooping.

I think it will come down to two things - either 1 - all those individual cylinders will need repacking - or 2 the control valves are bad - new o-rings / rebuild job. Or worse yet - both.

Is there a good way to tell which ?

 

[Delmer]

....filled up the radiator, about 1/3 would come back out in spill over tube. Not sure what's up with that either.

If he meant that he filled the radiator to the top of the cap, then 1/3 of the amount he added would come out by the time he checked it again, then that's normal. The expansion space is in the radiator, don't fill it to the top, at least an inch down from the top is probably what the manual says, or they assume you know that because that's the way it was before expansion tanks. If it shoots out as soon as you start the engine, that's a different story, sorry...

Does the drooping affect the operation of the unit? That might be expected for a backhoe of that age, I don't know if the valves are designed to hold a load or not. The spool is a precision metal to metal fit with the valve body, there's no fixing that, or replacing it economically either. If it has load checks, or the piston seals are leaking, then it is fixable if that's the issue.

If you can find the fittings and a high pressure ball valve, then you can put a valve in the hydraulic line to the stick and shut it off after shutting off the backhoe, to test the examples above.

 

[hosspuller]

Flex ring failure … It's internal to the Injection pump. You won't get to it, unless you're rebuilding the pump. The issue as it fails, pieces of it clog the fuel return. the engine dies or loses power. You'll have to get instructions on taking it off to send to a rebuilder. (don't just unbolt it)

 

[Tinkerer]

Taking the valve assembly off and taking it to a Case dealer is the last thing to do until you determine if the hydraulic cylinder pistons are leaking.
With the boom all the way up and the dipper all the way in , the boom should stay up for at least a 1/2 hour before it is all the way down to the ground.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Nice lookin machine.!! & CLEAN..
I haven't seen an engine that clean since those other fellas did that thread on their 580 rebuild..
I cant help w/ the drooping but> to "help" diagnose the problem, start w/ something simple.. like a stabilizer.
Take IT off & repack it & SEE if IT stays up.. that'll give you some idea of what to do next.. The kit only costs like $35.00. & if you hold/tie the hoses UP, you wont loose much fluid. BE SURE to wrap or CAP the ends of the hoses to keep dirt & moisture out.. a plastic bag will work, till you get back to it..
Good luck & keep me in mind, if you need any fuel system work done..{injection pump}

 

[Tinkerer]

In regards to repacking any of the cylinders on the backhoe, pumpguys method is good if you are going take complete cylinder somewhere to do the overhaul.
But, if you are going to do them yourself none of the cylinders need to be removed. Especially the swing cyliders.
Unscrew the gland after removing any lock screws that may be in the threaded joint of it. Then unpin the rod eye, start the engine and extend the rod as far as you can. Next pull the rod out and flip it over. Now re-pin the rod eye to the bracket where it was. Use blocking to keep everything level. Proceed to unscrew the nut or bolt that holds the piston on the rod. Reverse the procedure after installing the new piston rings and gland seals.

 

[Tinkerer]

A stabilizer I repaired Friday.

 

[Backbreaker Hoe]

Thank you Tinkerer and thepumpguysc - I think that's great advice - thank you so much ! Luckily, my son is a diesel mechanic and works in a fabrication shop. He'll do my cylinder repack for the cost of parts only.

So given that, I'll pick on the drooping outrigger cylinder first and ask him rebuild that one - he can get the rings and gland for about 30-35 bucks and do the work for free in shop. Given your advice, that should then tell me (if it stays up or continues to droop) what my next steps are. I've heard others advice also on staying away from the control valve until last resort. The only reason I'm considering this fix is the speed at which it falls which was alarming to me - bucket falls 1/2 way down in 1-2 min...same with right side outrigger. Left side outrigger stays up always.

 

[Delmer]

I agree with tinkerers method, leave the stabilizer cylinder on the machine. Pull the rod out and fix it, put it back together.

I'd lower that stabilizer nearly to the ground, then put the block under the end of the rod near the piston to support it when you break the nut/bolt loose. You won't save any oil like tinkerer did, but the oil is cheap and you'll spill most anyway.

 

[franklin2]

Let's see what the other guys say, but I think another way to diagnose very leaky cylinders is to feel them after you have used the machine for awhile. Ones that leak really bad will be very hot from all the fluid rushing by the seals. Of course that will not work very well on the stabilizer cylinder, but the way they are describing rebuilding them is the way I did it also. No need to mess with the hose connections or anything like that.

Just make sure you put lots of rags and cardboard boxes under the piston as you are pulling it out. Most of them I had to use my hand winch mounted on my truck, and when it comes out, it's all at once and you do not want it to fall down and get a ding in it.

 

[Tinkerer]

franklin;
There are two things you can do to avoid using a hand winch to get the rod out.
My preferred method is to unscrew the gland, start the engine and push the rod out with hydraulic pressure.
If the piston isn't tight in the bore I loosen the hydraulic fitting at the base of the barrel. That allows air to get sucked in while I pull the rod out by hand.

 

[thepumpguysc]

x2 on the hydro power..
.. BUT cardboard IS THE WAY to go.. it can/will be messy..
THATS WHY I prefer to take the entire unit off & to the vise..
THAT WAY, you can fight the gland & seals.. lol.. OH & lets not forget the nut that's torqued to 300FTLBS.

 

[Backbreaker Hoe]

Update - back on my 1975 580B backhoe today. I was able to get (looking forward) the two left side floor panels off and back on. Going shopping for some long wrenches ASAP. Anyway - I've had the milky white fluid in Transmission case (Rear most drain plug) dipstick - no matter what. I let go of say - 6-7 gallons - lots o water today.

Didn't have enough buckets. Shucks.

After getting the two plates up I got a lot of grease and dirt, sticks rocks etc from the cavity which is formed from the "L" angle on the floor boards (edges). Found loose transmission cover bolts. Tightened. Saw oozing of both water and silicon or some black sealer when tightening.... Saw how all the debris actually made a nice damn for the water to be held right over the seam of the plate and transmission, where it was loose. Got a brand new heavy duty transmission breather and replaced that also - the old one was junk.

Was able to scrape a lot of stuff - but am not done.

Coming back with a transmission plate gasket(if I must make my own from cork, I shall). And remove all 4 of the floorboards - drain the tranny - scrape oil and debris and use the power washer on it. Then, remove seat, seat plate transmission plate - ultra uber clean all part and associated areas again - replace with new gasket and MINIMAL sealer, and at that point - I think I shall have cured the water in the tranny issue.

While not done - there is big satisfaction in finding at least what I think is the culprit and knowing a cure may be at hand - I hope.

Please - again advice on this - what I'm proposing is from working on cars as a shade tree mechanic and a software designer by day....I'm finding the Heavy Machinery game takes on a whole new twist - Yes - this included getting more than your 5 gallon bucket can hold. Oh boy. Another newbie mistake....my son wasn't that happy with me as I did it in his home shop...lot's o kitty litter.

Take care guys !

Backbreaker.

 

[franklin2]

I am an old car mechanic myself, I have had my backhoe for about a year and a half so far. One piece of advice I can give, leave the floorboards out for awhile till you are sure everything is working ok. I have been operating mine without the floorboards ever since I got it, since I needed them out for the brake work. Some of the heavy equip mechanics work on them from below but they are too heavy for me to handle. And since I am sort of learning as I go, I have left the floorboards out till everything works ok and I feel I can put them back in for good. I still have a crack in the frame that I need to weld up under the floor. It is a little hot in the summer running it without the floor in place(I have a cab) but it is tolerable.