1963 44A D6B General Questions

[Drag racer]

Found the TM: https://www.google.com/books/editio...ational_Maintenance/4Pchm4l9u5IC?hl=en&gbpv=0

Also found this interesting FM on air dropping this dozer and other machinery: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Airdrop_of_Supplies_and_Equipment/iRIEI1oxp7wC?hl=en&gbpv=0

 

[Drag racer]

This dozer was meant to be air dropped in Vietnam jungle and operator would be parachuted in this was in 1967.

 

[OzDozer]

Strangely enough, the D6B's were never airdropped in one piece in 'Nam. They were brought in by pieces via air, and reassembled - and when they were required to be moved again, they were lifted and moved around in two sections by CH-54's. The book below gives the details.

https://history.army.mil/html/books/091/91-14-1/CMH_Pub_91-14.pdf

 

[Drag racer]

Strangely enough, the D6B's were never airdropped in one piece in 'Nam. They were brought in by pieces via air, and reassembled - and when they were required to be moved again, they were lifted and moved around in two sections by CH-54's. The book below gives the details.

https://history.army.mil/html/books/091/91-14-1/CMH_Pub_91-14.pdf

 

[Drag racer]

They were d4 with d6 engines cable blades in 67 I was in 47th airborne engineers.

 

[OzDozer]

Thanks for your service and important work in 'Nam. I served as an NCO with 17th Construction Sqdn, RAE. We ran teams of D8H's on jungle clearing, operated Cat 12E's, Euclid S7E scrapers, Cat 966B's and 996C's, plus a wide range of ancillary construction equipment, including on-road and off-road dump trucks.
We also reconstructed roads in SVN, constructed water points and operated them, did civil works for the South Vietnamese people, built accommodation for Australian and South Vietnamese troops, set up and ran a concrete plant, and constructed bridges. We also had our fair share of enemy "contacts", and a fair number of equipment and personnel losses to mines and booby traps.

The book I linked to above, specifically states their battalion tractors were D6B's. 9 mentions of D6B, on pages 63, 179, 319, 325, 326 & 326.
Your 47th Airborne Engineers gets no mention in the book above, nor in the one below - "Vietnam Studies - U.S. Army Engineers - 1965-1970". Was your unit part of the USACE, or part of the USAF?

I'm still puzzled over the activities of the Army Engineers and the USACE in SVN. In SVN, we had a good relationship with the USACE guys, and they lent us equipment such as D7E's and TD-15's.
However, these U.S. Engineers we interacted with, were all military. They wore military uniforms, carried weapons, held rank, and operated as fighting units.
Yet there appears to be U.S. Army Engineer units sent to SVN that were not combat units. I don't recall any non-combat Engineers in SVN, but they may have been there, and we just didn't interact with them.

There were civilian U.S. contractors in SVN, such as RMK, who carried out major construction projects for the U.S. Govt. But these guys were strictly civilian operators.

https://history.army.mil/html/books/090/90-22/CMH_Pub_90-22.pdf

 

[Mcrafty1]

Interesting concept, having an Army that is not Military - yet the USACE also encompasses Combat Engineers, who definitely are Military.
In my neck of the woods, Army is Military, period. You wear a uniform, swear allegiance, and are subject to Military Law and rank and promotion systems.
How does that work in the section of USACE that is tasked with civilian construction work? Do they simply work on a civilian system? Are they still subject to military law?

I did note, after more reading, that the Military TM-5-2410-229-12 is for the 37A D6B, the narrow gauge version. Does this mean that Leadfarmer is wasting his time painting his tractor OD, or trying to find OD paint under that Cat yellow? - because it never was a Military tractor?

The United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is an engineer formation of the United States Army that has three primary mission areas: Engineer Regiment, military construction, and civil works. The day-to-day activities of the three mission areas are administered by a lieutenant general known as the commanding general/chief of engineers. The chief of engineers commands the Engineer Regiment, comprising combat engineer, rescue, construction, dive, and other specialty units, and answers directly to the Chief of Staff of the Army. Combat engineers, sometimes called sappers, form an integral part of the Army's combined arms team and are found in all Army service components: Regular Army, National Guard, and Army Reserve. Their duties are to breach obstacles; construct fighting positions, fixed/floating bridges, and obstacles and defensive positions; place and detonate explosives; conduct route clearance operations; emplace and detect landmines; and fight as provisional infantry when required. For the military construction mission, the commanding general is directed and supervised by the Assistant Secretary of the Army for installations, environment, and energy, whom the President appoints and the Senate confirms. Military construction relates to construction on military bases and worldwide installations.

It looks like they're Army in this article...however, it doesn't say what tags they require on the dozers they employ.

 

[OzDozer]

Mcrafty1, the link below tells me more about what I wanted to know - that out of 37,000 USACE personnel, only 650 are Military, the other 36,350 are civilians.

https://www.360training.com/blog/usace-army-engineers-corps

I'm still trying to grasp how 650 Military personnel have command over 36,350 civilians. It doesn't work like that down under here - military are military, civilian is civilian, and the only time the military can dictate to civilians is when they have been specifically tasked by the Govt., to control the civilian population, as in natural disasters or emergencies (or pandemics).
Soldiers were called in to man checkpoints when borders and regions were locked down here in 2020 - but otherwise, civilians are free here to do what they choose (within the law).

If you work for USACE as a civilian, is it just like working for any other corporate operator? - and you can tell them to shove their job, anytime you feel disenchanted?
You can't tell your CO that when you wear the green - you can be charged with disobedience of orders, "conduct to the prejudice" (of good military order and discipline), or a raft of other military charges.

 

[Mcrafty1]

Mcrafty1, the link below tells me more about what I wanted to know - that out of 37,000 USACE personnel, only 650 are Military, the other 36,350 are civilians.

https://www.360training.com/blog/usace-army-engineers-corps

I'm still trying to grasp how 650 Military personnel have command over 36,350 civilians. It doesn't work like that down under here - military are military, civilian is civilian, and the only time the military can dictate to civilians is when they have been specifically tasked by the Govt., to control the civilian population, as in natural disasters or emergencies (or pandemics).
Soldiers were called in to man checkpoints when borders and regions were locked down here in 2020 - but otherwise, civilians are free here to do what they choose (within the law).

If you work for USACE as a civilian, is it just like working for any other corporate operator? - and you can tell them to shove their job, anytime you feel disenchanted?
You can't tell your CO that when you wear the green - you can be charged with disobedience of orders, "conduct to the prejudice" (of good military order and discipline), or a raft of other military charges.

Good observation, I don't know how that all shakes out, I always thought the Army Corp of Engineers were...well, Army. But then again I'm just a student working my way through life and have never forgot the fact that I'm never going to be too old to learn.

 

[Delmer]

The USACE in the US is most visible in waterway work. They manage river systems and levee systems, famously in New Orleans. Possibly other port work? they also overlap somewhat with Interior, Reclamation, Fish and Wildlife etc.

I would guess that they serve somewhat as a reserve capacity in peacetime, but mostly separate from the military side. No need to use a mil spec dozer to push sand in Iowa, or have a military employee doing it, basically it is a non military govt agency when doing domestic work.

How they integrated in Vietnam, or into active military, I have no idea.

 

[charles walton]

The operator and maintenance manual for your tractor is readily available, it is a Dept of the Army Technical Manual, TM-5-2410-229-12.

However, the Dept of the Army Service Manual for your D6B seems to be quite elusive. There used to be a big list of TM's available online, but it seems to have disappeared.
The following site may be able to assist in your search for any Dept of the Army Service Manual - but it's entirely possible that the military merely used the regular, civilian Caterpillar Service Manual.

https://guides.loc.gov/us-army-technical-manuals/obtaining-copies

Caterpillar commenced production of their own design angle blades and straight blades in 1947, but other brands/makes of blades were always available as an owner choice by tractor buyers.

Cable controls were chosen as the preferred method of implement control during the early stages of WW2, and this preference was driven by the insistence of Robert G LeTourneau, that cable controls were superior in every way to hydraulic controls.
Of course, in 1942, R.G. Le Tourneau was right - because the hydraulic systems of that era were low pressure, slow, and seals were manufactured from organic materials such as leather.

However, major technical and product developments during WW2 saw the introduction of nylon, teflon and other synthetic materials that could resist high pressures, high temperatures, and provide long-wearing characteristics, saw hydraulic and attachment manufacturers move rapidly into introducing higher operating pressures and high quality seals, which allowed for faster hydraulic speeds and performance, that gradually drove cable control systems out of business by the late 1950's.

However, old habits die hard and the military obviously still thought in the 1950's, that cable controls were superior. The fact that minimal amounts of oil were needed for cable control was advantageous in some respects, and it removed the problem of ensuring the correct oil was in the right location, and that operators couldn't become confused over oil types to use.

Read my post below sir.

 

[charles walton]

I am in the boat with LeTourneau because back in those days,and even today the cables are better on a clearing dozer,ESPECIALLY if you are burning on top of the groung,far less likely to catch fire,faster response time and they will flip a stump out better once you get the hang of it.

 

[leadfarmer]

I enjoy the discussion on the Army ties this dozer may or may not of had. No signs of green paint yet, but the back up beeper bolted to the CCU looks to have an NSN stamped on it, so there is something military I guess!

I replaced the bearing cap on the diagonal brace. Found a used one through the Offroad Equipment website. Also got a set of liners for that side as both were missing. Spent quite a few hours drilling out the old broken off bolts but everything came out and original threads survived. The left side was loose and missing one bolt. Both sides are squared away, torqued down, and greased up now.

Next up:
- change all fluids
- change all filters
- clean all screens
- adjust main clutch, brakes, etc
- grease everything that can be greased
- remove giant muffler for a straight stack, I just don't like the looks of the muffler and I wear ear protection regardless
- make some new bottom metal for the battery boxes
- new seats
- learn how to run a cable blade machine

 

[charles walton]

I enjoy the discussion on the Army ties this dozer may or may not of had. No signs of green paint yet, but the back up beeper bolted to the CCU looks to have an NSN stamped on it, so there is something military I guess!

I replaced the bearing cap on the diagonal brace. Found a used one through the Offroad Equipment website. Also got a set of liners for that side as both were missing. Spent quite a few hours drilling out the old broken off bolts but everything came out and original threads survived. The left side was loose and missing one bolt. Both sides are squared away, torqued down, and greased up now.

Next up:
- change all fluids
- change all filters
- clean all screens
- adjust main clutch, brakes, etc
- grease everything that can be greased
- remove giant muffler for a straight stack, I just don't like the looks of the muffler and I wear ear protection regardless
- make some new bottom metal for the battery boxes
- new seats
- learn how to run a cable blade machine

Main thing with a cable blade is to not get slack in the cable.

 

[Bluox]

While you are under your tractor check the hard bar and the pads & plates plus both ends of bar where it sets on the track frames.
Bad Bob

 

[leadfarmer]

Main thing with a cable blade is to not get slack in the cable.

couple guys have said dont get slack in the cable and left it at that. What does an operator need to do to keep slack out of the cable?

While you are under your tractor check the hard bar and the pads & plates plus both ends of bar where it sets on the track frames.
Bad Bob

what is the hard bar and what would I be looking for?

 

[charles walton]

couple guys have said dont get slack in the cable and left it at that. What does an operator need to do to keep slack out of the cable?



what is the hard bar and what would I be looking for?

Just mainly don't drop the blade too fast because it will hit the ground and get slack ,

 

[Mcrafty1]

"While you are under your tractor check the hard bar and the pads & plates plus both ends of bar where it sets on the track frames.
Bad Bob"
The hard bar is a beam that it attached to the underside of the tractor just behind the and below the engine where it attaches to the transmission. it is held there by and pivots on a single pin and extended out over the track frame one both sides. On my D6C it sits in/on a wear pad with guides ahead and behind to keep the track frame from being able to drop too far should you get the weight of of it. Basically it supports the front of the machine. Picture a walking beam that goes from one track frame to the other. It has a bushing in the center of the beam and wears on the ends that sit on the track frames.

 

[leadfarmer]

I got to put some hours on the dozer. Spread out some shale I had hauled and piled up. I felt pretty cool running that cable blade.

Unfortunately the hour meter didn't record those hours. When I remove the cap that is sticking out from the engine, perpendicular to the meter, I can see the end of a shaft turning. So it works to that point. Anyone know off hand what part usually breaks in those?

I dropped the belly pans/skid plates this past weekend. They are so much lighter when a ton of dirt, grease, and sticks is cleaned out of them. Found an oil leak and a fuel line leak as I cleaned the crud out of everywhere. Still working on changing all the fluids and tinkering with things.

Got a new set of seat cushions and arm rests from Finney Parts. They are perfect fit and a great price. Nice stuff.

 

[Mcrafty1]

I woke up my C a couple a days ago too, I'm getting anxious to play in the dirt It's been a good winter here in central Maine but the winter still drags on this time of the year. I'm ready to get out there and spew some greenhouse gases.