-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
1962 Allis Chalmers HD 16
- Thread starter bvwaste
- Start date
crayton
Well-Known Member
Norm Swinfords book on Allis Chalmers lists the HD-16 from 1958 to 1970 bare tractor as weighing 34,500 for regular trans with 20 in pads to 35,700 with tourqe converter and 24 in pads. Probably add 8-10,000# for canopy and dozer and ripper if it has one. 16000H engine,844 cu in, 163 - 183 hp at 1600-1750 rpm. Add a turbo and large enough Donaldson air cleaner and you will have a pretty snorty tractor. Might check on aviability of undercarrage parts. I know the HD-6 rails are no longer aviable but can convert to Cat weld on sprockets and rails. Loved those old AC tractors, they were really ahead of their time.
Thanks Crayton;
I need to find out if it is gears or torque convertor. Any idea on availabilty for parts other than undercarriage? The ad says it has been in the family since new, so I am hoping it was taken care of.
I need to find out if it is gears or torque convertor. Any idea on availabilty for parts other than undercarriage? The ad says it has been in the family since new, so I am hoping it was taken care of.
crayton
Well-Known Member
bywaste------ Parts are no longer being made but Minn-Parr bought all the new parts from AC and have many parts avaiable but they also know how to charge. Many good used parts around. Steering clutch discs, bearings etc are all avilable aftermarket. A good source for used and new parts here is "Norcan Parts" Spokane Wa. They are from Canada so they speak you language. Good people. ((509-466-3566). If it has the dry clutch the drive line U joints are hard to find but can be converted by a good drive line shop. Also most HD 15 and some HD 9 and 20 and 21 parts are interchangable. If it has the manual trans don't use EP 90 in it. They have large brass bushings which the EP will eat like worms. Book calls for 50 wt motor oil and it works. Can use 90EP in finals with no problem. See if you can get a service manual for it. Principals in the HD9-11-15-16-20 are pretty much the same so any one of them should help.
Buckethead
Senior Member
Actually some of the old Allis-Chalmers had a torque converter and a regular clutch and gearbox. So it was a manual trans, but with a torque converter. And the converter used fuel from the fuel tank for fluid. I think A-C was the first manufacturer to use a torque converter.
I appreciate all the information, sounds like a manual would be a wise move on my part. I have to make up my mind between the HD 16 and a Cat D6C, direct drive, under carriage is the same on both machines, just the HD 16 has the rebuilt engine. If anyone had a choice which way you you go??
Thanks
Thanks
D6 Merv
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2007
- Messages
- 653
- Location
- Coromandel Peninsula. New Zealand
- Occupation
- Self employed bulldozing contractor with a D6D D4E
on the upper rh side of case it will have HD16 then some letters may be A,AC,D,DC,DP stamped then some numbers. come back with those i can tell you more. Bu t basically A is short track frame,D is longer trackframe. C is torque converter drive with 3sp manuel shift. DP is powershift. Later ones had wet steering clutchs and brakes. Were a good dozer in there day, but you,d need a wrecking yard nearby for parts. Not sure how youd get on for undercarrige. Long term D6C will be a better choice as you will always get parts for them Depends on how tidy the 16 is.
OzDozer
Senior Member
The HD16 will either be direct drive (dry master clutch with sliding gear manual transmission) or torque converter drive (twin disc torque converter, coupled to dry clutch and sliding gear manual transmission).
These were a very good old tractor with excellent reliability. With the torque converter drive model, A-C used a diesel torque converter. The diesel from the fuel tank is pumped through the torque converter, instead of oil.
This has the effect of also pre-warming the fuel, as the diesel is circulated back to the tank. On a cold day, working hard, you can see the fuel tank steaming!
DON'T attempt to turbocharge this engine, they will not cope with turbocharging and will blow up. All A-C equipment was well engineered, but was finely-engineered, with less reserve strength than Cats.
The A-C tractors are simple to fix as they require no pullers, no specialist tools, and can be repaired anywhere by anyone with basic mechanical knowledge.
Parts will be a problem for this tractor because the A-C company has not existed since 1985 - and just the tractor being 50 yrs old, is enough of a challenge for spares availability.
The HD16, like nearly all the A-C tractors, came in "Construction" models and "Agricultural" models. The Construction versions were fitted with a hard nose that was capable of mounting blade hydraulic cylinders on.
The Agricultural models had a "soft nose" with a side-hinged grille, and were fitted with a drawbar for tillage work. The Ag models had shorter track frames with a lesser number of lower track rollers to facilitate easy turning.
The HD16 of 1962 came in the following models:
HD16A - short track frame, 6 track rollers, direct (gear) drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP. Weight: 31,600 lbs.
HD16AC - short track frame, 6 track rollers, torque converter drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP. Weight: 32,600 lbs.
HD16D - (from 1960-on) - long track frame, 7 track rollers, direct (gear) drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP. Weight: 32,700 lbs.
HD16DC - (from 1960-on) - long track frame, 7 track rollers, torque converter drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP . Weight: 32,800 lbs.
The powershift HD16DP model did not appear until 1964. In 1964, the 16000H series engine appeared, the "H" standing for High Speed.
The Cat D6C is a lighter machine with less HP and less weight, the HD16 is closer to Cat D7 size, and has substantially more production capabilities than the D6C.
Depending on the age of the D6C you're talking, the D6C could be an early 120HP model (1963-1970) or a later 140HP model (1970-on).
The D6C will have better parts availability, and is a very nice little tractor, well balanced and very reliable. However, it's effectively a smaller size tractor, so it falls short of the pushing ability of the HD16 by about 20% at least.
If you have big stumps to remove the HD16 will do it easier. It will push 25% more dirt in the same amount of time. The A-C's are very fast dirt movers. However, the Hydreco hydraulics on the HD16, are slower and less responsive than the Cat hydraulics.
The HD16 needs to be cheap, because it's older, has poor parts availability, and they are light in the undercarriage dept. The D6C has better parts availability, is easier to shift around (lighter), but has lesser dozing and dirt moving abilities.
These were a very good old tractor with excellent reliability. With the torque converter drive model, A-C used a diesel torque converter. The diesel from the fuel tank is pumped through the torque converter, instead of oil.
This has the effect of also pre-warming the fuel, as the diesel is circulated back to the tank. On a cold day, working hard, you can see the fuel tank steaming!
DON'T attempt to turbocharge this engine, they will not cope with turbocharging and will blow up. All A-C equipment was well engineered, but was finely-engineered, with less reserve strength than Cats.
The A-C tractors are simple to fix as they require no pullers, no specialist tools, and can be repaired anywhere by anyone with basic mechanical knowledge.
Parts will be a problem for this tractor because the A-C company has not existed since 1985 - and just the tractor being 50 yrs old, is enough of a challenge for spares availability.
The HD16, like nearly all the A-C tractors, came in "Construction" models and "Agricultural" models. The Construction versions were fitted with a hard nose that was capable of mounting blade hydraulic cylinders on.
The Agricultural models had a "soft nose" with a side-hinged grille, and were fitted with a drawbar for tillage work. The Ag models had shorter track frames with a lesser number of lower track rollers to facilitate easy turning.
The HD16 of 1962 came in the following models:
HD16A - short track frame, 6 track rollers, direct (gear) drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP. Weight: 31,600 lbs.
HD16AC - short track frame, 6 track rollers, torque converter drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP. Weight: 32,600 lbs.
HD16D - (from 1960-on) - long track frame, 7 track rollers, direct (gear) drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP. Weight: 32,700 lbs.
HD16DC - (from 1960-on) - long track frame, 7 track rollers, torque converter drive, 74 in gauge, direct injection 16000 series engine, 163 Gross HP, 160 Net HP . Weight: 32,800 lbs.
The powershift HD16DP model did not appear until 1964. In 1964, the 16000H series engine appeared, the "H" standing for High Speed.
The Cat D6C is a lighter machine with less HP and less weight, the HD16 is closer to Cat D7 size, and has substantially more production capabilities than the D6C.
Depending on the age of the D6C you're talking, the D6C could be an early 120HP model (1963-1970) or a later 140HP model (1970-on).
The D6C will have better parts availability, and is a very nice little tractor, well balanced and very reliable. However, it's effectively a smaller size tractor, so it falls short of the pushing ability of the HD16 by about 20% at least.
If you have big stumps to remove the HD16 will do it easier. It will push 25% more dirt in the same amount of time. The A-C's are very fast dirt movers. However, the Hydreco hydraulics on the HD16, are slower and less responsive than the Cat hydraulics.
The HD16 needs to be cheap, because it's older, has poor parts availability, and they are light in the undercarriage dept. The D6C has better parts availability, is easier to shift around (lighter), but has lesser dozing and dirt moving abilities.
Last edited:
having been around an hd 16 a long time ago I can safely say they ran ok till something failed, and that seemed to be way too often. Do not go down this road because they are extinct for a good reason.
You can haul a late 6C on a short two axle trailer easily, it will produce many long hours of service and except for the final drive press you must use to r&r it repairs are as easy and cheap as anything you can buy. Only down side is they are getting really old and any of them will probably need a bunch of money put into them to get them up and running again.
You can haul a late 6C on a short two axle trailer easily, it will produce many long hours of service and except for the final drive press you must use to r&r it repairs are as easy and cheap as anything you can buy. Only down side is they are getting really old and any of them will probably need a bunch of money put into them to get them up and running again.
Hello again; The guy with the HD 16 did not get back to me and I have contiued to hunt. The D6C with Direct drive looks good but freight from Washington State to Canada is crazy. I have also Found a Fiat Allis 14C in Montana that has more reasonable freight and Barger Parts in Edmonton, Alberta has told me they can get most parts for the Fiat Allis 14C. Now I have also found a 1979 John Deere 750 and a Komatsu D-60 that in the picture says D-60E and the guy says it is a 1986, but from the pictures it looks like a gear transmission not a power shift, so what year could it be?? If you had a choice between a Fiat Allis 14C, John Deere 750 and a Komatsu D-60 what would you chose?
Thanks, I appreciate the expertise on this site
Thanks, I appreciate the expertise on this site
OzDozer
Senior Member
The D-60 was produced from the mid-1960's to the late 1960's. Not a bad old tractor - the 220 Cummins I believe, is the old 743 cu in Cummins. You'll be struggling to find many parts for it.