1650 Cockshutt (Oliver) Power loss then quits running.

[Shakenbake]

Hello I have a 1650 Cockshutt that I have owned for aprox.25 years Its an Industrial front end model,Wakasha indirect injection version,I never had an engine problem until lately and I will try to describe best i can. When i start tractor it runs normal for aprox,10 to 15 mins then loses power so much so i need low gear for it to move and then it will just die,but if i restart it may run good for a few mins or go into the shut down mode again,When it loses power i can push throttle wide open and just maintain an idle but it will eventually shut down and i can restart and good for a short time and it goes to low idle then shuts down same cycle it seems.I checked for blockage in the tank and its clean there seems to be good pressure at the secondary filtre although i havent check with a pressure gauge,I just seems wierd that it will run perfect then just start to idle down and die then when i start it right back up it will run for a while then go thru the same routine,it got the best of me to figure this out.Any insight into this problem appreciated.Thank You

 

[d9gdon]

I would look for something floating(piece of plastic bag?) around in the fuel tank first and if that wasn't it then I'd start looking for places where air could get into the fuel system; cracked line or housing, bad seal, etc.

 

[Shakenbake]

I would look for something floating(piece of plastic bag?) around in the fuel tank first and if that wasn't it then I'd start looking for places where air could get into the fuel system; cracked line or housing, bad seal, etc.

Thank You for the fast reply...I will drain the tank on Monday and see if anything settles to the bottom like you mentioned never thought of a plastic bag it would be hard to spot thru the filler neck,as for air in the system would there be exhaust smoke if there was air injected with fuel? The engine burns clean no smoke thru all of its cycle from normal running to faded power to eventually stopping.

 

[jimg984]

no smoke a good sign its struggling to get enough fuel filters, strainers, and as mentioned cracked metal or the rubber line would reduce ability to pull fuel in GL

 

[Shakenbake]

no smoke a good sign its struggling to get enough fuel filters, strainers, and as mentioned cracked metal or the rubber line would reduce ability to pull fuel in GL

I have tried all of the above post to no avail,here are some things i have also tried.Checked the fuel return to the tank,I am not sure how much pressure it is supposed to have but it runs out at i would say if you were syphoning with the same size hose,The problem is getting worst tho as the engine will only run for about 15 or 20 seconds then shut down and then i can wait for about 20 seconds and it does the same,i tried cracking open the fuel fitting where the main line attaches to the high pressure pump imeaditly after it stops running and there is a fair amount of pressure there so it seems to be getting fuel to the pump,Is stange it runs great then dies as if theres no fuel but there is pressure at the pump inlet.again any suggestions are welcome.Thank You

 

[thepumpguysc]

Sounds similar to a broken flex ring.. go to the top cover on the injection pump.. roosa master I'm assuming.??
and remove the return line and THE ENTIRE fitting that screws into the cover.. now start it.. does it stay running??
IF SO, you have a clogged return.. could be from rust/dirt or could be the flex ring inside the pump has failed and clogging the return..

 

[pac11adp]

I don't know the exact fuel system on your machine and the location of filters and how the style of lift pump however if it's fairly normal:

If the above post from thepumpguysc doesn't make it run. Take a clean Jerry can of fuel and set it up a few feet minimum above the engine. Start the siphon and gravity feed it straight to the injector pump, hopefully through a cheap push on plastic fuel filter. Run the return line back into the top bucket (under fuel so you can look for air bubbles from a leaky pump shaft seal) and run the old fuel line into a container so you don't pump fuel all over the place.

If it now runs and does pump lots of fuel out of the old fuel supply line you are sucking air somewhere from the lift pump to the fuel tank.
If it now runs and doesn't pump much fuel you have a blockage or poor lift pump.
If it acts the exact same there likely is an issue in the injector pump
If it won't run at all now, make sure all the air is bled out of it and the fuel line siphons free through to the inj pump, still won't run (It's going to run) put a 12v lift pump in the line just for this test.

Mike

 

[Shakenbake]

Sounds similar to a broken flex ring.. go to the top cover on the injection pump.. roosa master I'm assuming.??
and remove the return line and THE ENTIRE fitting that screws into the cover.. now start it.. does it stay running??
IF SO, you have a clogged return.. could be from rust/dirt or could be the flex ring inside the pump has failed and clogging the return..

I removed the complete fitting on top of the pump and it is a roosamaster and the engine will run it has throttle response to full throttle although not as quick as i thought it had but it runs and idles I did not load the engine but it was just a good to hear it run ,i then reinstalled back to orignal and same old situation run then die out and stop.I should mention I put a 1/8th line where the fitting was on top of the pump to catch the return fuel and it ran constant but no pressure it ran at a syphoning rate of flow i guess.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Good.. NOW.. Take a wad of paper towles and remove the side cover.. 2 screws and let the fuel run over the paper towles till it stops.. look for coffee ground looking substance.. little black plastic pieces.. if its on the towel, thats flex ring material.
OR just look in the fitting you removed from the top of the pump, you should see a glass ball and spring.. its probably clogged.
Clean it out and reinstall it..
IF there is NO glass ball.. the return line is clogged.. remove the fuel cap at the tank and blow back thru the return line to the tank..
The thing about that type of fuel system is>> if you cant get fuel OUT.. you cant get fuel IN.. thats why it runs with the return not hooked up..

 

[Shakenbake]

Good.. NOW.. Take a wad of paper towles and remove the side cover.. 2 screws and let the fuel run over the paper towles till it stops.. look for coffee ground looking substance.. little black plastic pieces.. if its on the towel, thats flex ring material.
OR just look in the fitting you removed from the top of the pump, you should see a glass ball and spring.. its probably clogged.
Clean it out and reinstall it..
IF there is NO glass ball.. the return line is clogged.. remove the fuel cap at the tank and blow back thru the return line to the tank..
The thing about that type of fuel system is>> if you cant get fuel OUT.. you cant get fuel IN.. thats why it runs with the return not hooked up..

Yes... there is like coffee ground material under the plate,Looks like you have found the problem.Whats involved in reparing the gasket is it a complicated procedure.

 

[thepumpguysc]

YES it is complicated.. BUT doable.. afew folks on the site have done it.. and there are online manuals available.. I would suggest getting a manual.
the kit you need is P# 24371.. the company roosa master is NOW called Stanadyne..
You need to get the model # off the name plate on the pump.. DBGF????-???
IF you get the #'s off the plate, I can send you a break down and P#'s for your specific pump..

 

[Shakenbake]

YES it is complicated.. BUT doable.. afew folks on the site have done it.. and there are online manuals available.. I would suggest getting a manual.
the kit you need is P# 24371.. the company roosa master is NOW called Stanadyne..
You need to get the model # off the name plate on the pump.. DBGF????-???
IF you get the #'s off the plate, I can send you a break down and P#'s for your specific pump..

Ok great I am going to do the repair here,the pump model # Is DBG FC 629 1DH 22 I have found the kit P24371 on line so I will order that and see what i can find for videos to see how deep i need to get into the pump.Before the flex ring failed the tractor worked excellent ran pure no smoke and good power so i thing the pump is in good shape so i only want to repair the ring if possible and not dusturb what i do not have to.I want to also Thank You and all the form members who had given suggestions on this problem.This form has a great wealth of years of experience as well as generosity from its members.Thank You Again.
Eugene

 

[thepumpguysc]

There is a "series" on utube for an oliver 77.. pump rebuild.. but there is better info out there..
you could google DBG pump rebuild.. what you DONT want to do, is follow the DB2 info.. the DB2 is a different animal..

 

[thepumpguysc]

Don't forget.. the pump/engine should be timed BEFORE you pull the pump off.
All you have to do is remove the side cover on the pump and roll the engine over until the 2 lines line up.. and don't move the engine until the pump is back on..

 

[Shakenbake]

Just an update on my stalling out engine...its running perfect again thanks to all who posted suggestions and to thepumpguysc who pointed me to the flex ring gasket being the culprit and for guiding me thru the steps to replacing it.Great to have this kind of knowledge available on this forum.This forum is so valuable to keeping our equipment old and new running as it should... Many Thanks

 

[Kfarms]

Ok great I am going to do the repair here,the pump model # Is DBG FC 629 1DH 22 I have found the kit P24371 on line so I will order that and see what i can find for videos to see how deep i need to get into the pump.Before the flex ring failed the tractor worked excellent ran pure no smoke and good power so i thing the pump is in good shape so i only want to repair the ring if possible and not dusturb what i do not have to.I want to also Thank You and all the form members who had given suggestions on this problem.This form has a great wealth of years of experience as well as generosity from its members.Thank You Again.
Eugene

I have been having the same problem with my 1650
What all is involved and did you find any videos on repairing?
Never been on this site before but when I googled what was happening your posting came up. It is verbatim to my issue
Bought mine in 1982 and been great until this issue so any assistance would be appreciated
Thanks
Ken

 

[Delmer]

Did you find the "coffee grounds"? Did you remove the return fitting? Do you have a DBG pump?

Just because you have the same symptoms doesn't mean you have the same cause...

 

[Welder Dave]

Thepumpguysc is like the encyclopedia of injection pump trouble shooting and repair!

 

[Vetech63]

Thepumpguysc is like the encyclopedia of injection pump trouble shooting and repair!

That he is!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Ken, seeing its also a 1650, chances are they are the same pump.??
Just follow the diagnostics already noted & reach out to the other poster for his rebuild instructions..
I don't think u have enough posts to reach out directly but he'll see this thread..