140m injector problems

[20/80]

Hello everyone we have a 2007 i think, model 140m cat that has injector problems, it usually starts out with #6 injector going first then the others start to go afterwards, when you know its starting to go it misses when you first start it in the morning, we are on our 7th set of injectors, any imfo on what you think is causing this problem would be greatly appreciated, another note, the first set went at 600 hrs, thanks everyone.

 

[Nige]

It might be a silly question but if the first set of injectors went out at 700 hours was your local Cat dealer nit involved from there onwards..? Even if the machine was out of warranty eating sets of injectors like you are is not normal and the dealer woulkd be the first port of call in this type of situation.

We have lots of machines with C-series engines and have failed the occasional injector, but not in complete sets like you are doing.

 

[20/80]

Yes cat was involved from day one, what i found was kind of strange was the first set that were pulled out were aftermarket injectors in a new cat engine, at 900 hrs the crank went, i don't know but was thinking the crank might be out of phase causing this problem, anyone have any idea's? thanks

 

[02Dmax]

Have they put a HEUI pump on it?

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[20/80]

Have they put a HEUI pump on it?

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that would be more than i could tell you, cat just keeps on replacing them, its to the point that our shop is replacing them, it's to costly to keep getting cat to replace them $1000 just for the call out plus hourly rate,they just seem to keep replacing them and not finding whats causing the injectors to fail, hoping somebody on here would have an idea whats going on and where to look? was talking to the operater last night he said #6 injector has failed again, i'm on a few day's of so he is using my baby old faithful 140h till his is repaired again, this is crazy why nobody can figure out whats causing the injectors to fail, the 140m vhp has the 9 litre engine. thanks

 

[02Dmax]

C9's are notorious for HEUI pumps knocking out injectors. Usually its not until 6000 hrs or so though. I wouldn't put another set in until you replace the heui pump. Replace it all at one time (pump and injectors) and clean ALL the fuel and oil galleys in the head as meticulously as possible. And change the oil, oil filter, and fuel filters when you do it.

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[20/80]

C9's are notorious for HEUI pumps knocking out injectors. Usually its not until 6000 hrs or so though. I wouldn't put another set in until you replace the heui pump. Replace it all at one time (pump and injectors) and clean ALL the fuel and oil galleys in the head as meticulously as possible. And change the oil, oil filter, and fuel filters when you do it.

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Thank you, its funny why cat didn't do this after the 2nd or 3rd set, just kept on replacing them, guess it was easier to do that. i will pass the info on to our mech, any other info would be great, thanks again.

 

[Nige]

Get your mechanic to make a list of dates, hour meter readings, costs, etc, for all the times that injectors have been replaced over the years then have someone with a bit of horsepower (like the owner, manager, whatever of your outfit) talk to the Service Manager at the Cat Dealer and ask specifically about a Goodwill settlement because you the customer "have not received fair value" for what you bought due to the repetitive failures.

I'm with Dmax. The HEUI Pump should be replaced (and Cat should pay for it IMHO) before replacing any more injectors. i didn't make the connection that it was a C-9, all our C-Series are C-13 and larger that don't suffer from the HEUI issue.

 

[20/80]

Get your mechanic to make a list of dates, hour meter readings, costs, etc, for all the times that injectors have been replaced over the years then have someone with a bit of horsepower (like the owner, manager, whatever of your outfit) talk to the Service Manager at the Cat Dealer and ask specifically about a Goodwill settlement because you the customer "have not received fair value" for what you bought due to the repetitive failures.

I'm with Dmax. The HEUI Pump should be replaced (and Cat should pay for it IMHO) before replacing any more injectors. i didn't make the connection that it was a C-9, all our C-Series are C-13 and larger that don't suffer from the HEUI issue.

I will do that thanks, cat has won the tender for suppling us with equipment for the next 4 years, they should come good for this without a hitch, but they seem to find windows to get out of it, there is a 80% chance they will reject the

 

[20/80]

I will do that thanks, cat has won the tender for suppling us with equipment for the next 4 years, they should come good for this without a hitch, but they seem to find windows to get out of it, there is a 80% chance they will reject the

sorry i hit the wrong button, there's a 80% chance they will reject the pump claim without more proof that the pump is causing the problem, i don't know if there is some kind of test that could prove the pump is causing the injector problem, these are the kind of questions the will ask before they give you the" you do not have a clue what you are talking about look" this is what we are up against, i know its said but this is what we have to deal with. thanks

 

[Nige]

Tell the dealer to use the Cat Dealer Solution Network (DSN) and put in all the details of the failures to date (especially the symptoms of going out on one injector first followed by the rest, that may be very relevant) and ask Cat for guidance. The most likely thing they will be told to do is replace the HEUI Pump.

When it was first introduced we used to refer to DSN as "Don't Solve Nothing" but that's another story ......... occasionally it works well because it logs reports from dealers all over the world and if there has been anything similar anywhere it will spit the details out.

 

[20/80]

Tell the dealer to use the Cat Dealer Solution Network (DSN) and put in all the details of the failures to date (especially the symptoms of going out on one injector first followed by the rest, that may be very relevant) and ask Cat for guidance. The most likely thing they will be told to do is replace the HEUI Pump.

When it was first introduced we used to refer to DSN as "Don't Solve Nothing" but that's another story ......... occasionally it works well because it logs reports from dealers all over the world and if there has been anything similar anywhere it will spit the details out.

Thank you, i will inform the our mech, he is really good to deal with, i will let you know the outcome, thanks so much for the great info everyone.

 

[20/80]

Its the same old same old fix regarding to the injector problems with our 140m, just going to replace# 6 injector even though our mechanics agree with NIGE and 02DMAX on replacing the heui pump, our management seem to think that avoid fixing the problem and it will go away is the cheapest way to go and save money to boot, isn't that sad, cat would probably go good for the pump considering this injector failure keeps happening since the machine was new, this is what we deal with on a day to day basis with upper management, its hard to keep your cool, but there the boss.

 

[02Dmax]

Tell them they can have a heui pump paid for after replacing one set of injectors. Also tell them doing the same action repeatedly and expecting a different outcome is insanity.

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[thepumpguysc]

I agree w/ Dmax's last statement.. 1 thing to consider tho.. IF THIS KEEPS HAPPENING.. and someone from CAT gets the "bright idea" to check your "fuel quality" and it fails..??{their words** your in a heap of misery..
I have seen this happen to many times to count.. a dealer gets tired of "paying claims" and "finds" a way out..
I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate claim... just.. be aware that, at some point.. THEY ARE GONNA TURN THIS ON YOU..
And let your boss's know this..
I WISH I had an answer for your problem but I don't..so the next best thing I can think of is.. helping you keep your a** out of a sling.. lol

 

[20/80]

Insanity, you hit the nail on the head, its upper management that is the problem, thats why they're payed the big bucks they are suppose to know what they're doing it sure looks that way on paper and unfortunately that is who the big wigs listen to, its all about saving money "today" and forget about tomorrow for now,we will deal with that later, any of this sound familiar? anyway it is what it is, insanity, well enough of my ranting, thanks so much for your support and help guys, i will pass your info on to our mechanic.

 

[20/80]

CAT is going to go good for a new HEUI pump and injectors, just not sure when, are 140m is starting to miss again on start up, injectors starting to go again, two were changed a month ago, is there anything else cat should do when they do this repair? thanks.

 

[fsmech]

Worked on a 24M grader with C 18 engine, it lost a couple of injectors like you say early on, turned out to be the injector harness inside the rocker box, resistances were to high and kept frying the solenoid coils on the injectors. Might be worth checking the Ohms resistance down each pin of the harness, not sure what it should be and seeing if theres any problems there. The harness was replaced and it sorted out the problems, not sure for how long though as I left a few months after. Have cat said what is failing on the injectors??

 

[02Dmax]

Make damn sure they clean out the oil passages in the head and the heui oil lines with solvent and compressed air. I'd want the oil changed in it too.

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[20/80]

Cat is coming tomorrow jan 31/14 to do the servicing, i will certainly tell the cat tech, thank you