JD 310B Backhoe Hydraulic Cylinder Rebuild Advice

Scout_1969 · Aug 9, 2021

My John Deere 310B backhoe (in order of severity) needs the crowd, both swing and one stabilizer cylinder rebuilt. I'd like some advice on removal, seal parts source and any other advice that would help. I helped repack a cylinder once and have done some online research, but have some questions to hopefully make the process smoother and not damage the rod guide.

Rod guide removal-

leave cylinder on the machine
the set screw is removed and I tap the barrel with a mallet several times, I'm unsure on the best method for unscrewing the guide to avoid damage.
Some folks online use a punch, air chisel or pipe wrench for the old likely seized guides, newer ones use a spanner wrench.
The vibration from the air chisel would have it's advantages.
The spanner only grabs one slot so I don't expect to break the guide loose with it, just speed up unthreading/threading.
I could heat the body if necessary.
The pipe wrench would certainly scar the guide so that's a last resort.
Is there a tool or could one be made to seat in at least two of the slots? This would spread the force over two slots instead of one.

Seal sources I'd like comments on quality etc. and seal removal/install information

Of course the dealership is trustworthy but up to 4 times more costly over aftermarket
Hercules
Baum hydraulics
Tornado
Tractor parts ASAP
Of course I like to save money but dont want to regret it
Seals kits seem to have extra seals to cover several applications, would be nice to have only seals required.
I plan to use a pvc pipe to place old removed seals on in order of removal to match new seals

Should (could I reasonably) hone the bore?

I’ve searched this site and online but any links, videos etc. would be appreciated.

Scout_1969 · Aug 9, 2021

Below is a link to a video I found and the author has several others for a D model that appear to be similar. They appear to be pretty thorough and I’ll study them. However I plan to borrow a large impact instead of the cheater bar set up to break the large bolt loose.
Other suggestions/tricks would be appreciated

Swetz · Aug 9, 2021

If you plan to use an impact, you will need a high torque 1" drive and a 3/4" hose to supply the volume that the gun will need to crack those bolts.

When I did my crowd cylinder, I built a channel stand, and put a 4x4 in it to rest the boom on. I also took the bucket off so the boom would be lower to the ground. You could dig a hole and set the bucket down in it if you want to leave the bucket on. Be aware, the rod is heavy! As you can see, I used another tractor to handle the rod.

Tinkerer · Aug 9, 2021

No offense intended, but isn't the guide you refer to actually the gland ?
None of the cylinders need to be removed, especially the swing cylinders.
If you have or can get an engine hoist, they work quite well for removing the crowd cylinder or just the rod.
The fine adjustment capability of the hoist helps line up the rod in the bore on reassembly.
A photo of the gland would help members to advise you as to what type of wrench to use for turning the gland in or out.
Honing cylinder bores should be done by a professional shop if it needs it. IMHO.

Swetz · Aug 9, 2021

I purchased my seal kits from CEA-Services in fla. They are Hercules brand. I called and they found what I needed at a good price. Note that, like many things, seal kits are in short supply.
Also bought some tools.
Gland nut pin spanner wrench, and some larger pins
3pc Hydraulic Cylinder Piston Rod Seal U-Cup Installation Tool
Snap ring pliers
A cheap harbor freight pick set
A stout 3/4" drive breaker bar for the gland nut spanner

Scout_1969 · Aug 9, 2021

Tinkerer said:
No offense intended, but isn't the guide you refer to actually the gland ?
None of the cylinders need to be removed, especially the swing cylinders.
If you have or can get an engine hoist, they work quite well for removing the crowd cylinder or just the rod.
The fine adjustment capability of the hoist helps line up the rod in the bore on reassembly.
A photo of the gland would help members to advise you as to what type of wrench to use for turning the gland in or out.
Honing cylinder bores should be done by a professional shop if it needs it. IMHO.

No problem, I started to call it a gland, but Deere calls it a rod guide. The engine hoist is a great idea especially since I don’t have another machine to lift with.

Scout_1969 · Aug 9, 2021

Swetz said:
I purchased my seal kits from CEA-Services in fla. They are Hercules brand. I called and they found what I needed at a good price. Note that, like many things, seal kits are in short supply.
Also bought some tools.
Gland nut pin spanner wrench, and some larger pins
3pc Hydraulic Cylinder Piston Rod Seal U-Cup Installation Tool
Snap ring pliers
A cheap harbor freight pick set
A stout 3/4" drive breaker bar for the gland nut spannerView attachment 243608 View attachment 243609 View attachment 243610 View attachment 243611

I’m interested in the spanner tool if it works on the square slot style rod seals like my backhoe. They’re probably most useful on the round holes on the face of the rod seals. If nothing else it will speed up the process once it’s broke loose.
The rod seal installation tools seem real handy.
I’ll look into getting them and the reverse (?) pliers.
Thanks for the list and pictures!

Swetz · Aug 9, 2021

They sell a hook spanner for the square slot
https://www.tooldiscounter.com/product/otc-adjustable-hook-spanner-wrench-otc885

This is the u-cup tools I bought...you can find many at varying prices. These work good.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/223486453439

Here are a real good set of USA made pliers. I purchased these in addition to the ones in the pics
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163827242441?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

T-town · Aug 10, 2021

You might be hard pressed for space to use those wrenches on your swing cylinders.... the crowd and swing are the same set up are they not....?.... big gland nut?( rod guide nut)

I just took a drift pin and gave it a wrap.... round and round.... Mine were not hard fast in the bore. Came loose easily. Rod came out simple too.
Now... I had a shop replace the seals.... but I pulled the rod on one ( swing) and pulled the whole cylinder on the other ( not needed... easier to just pull the rod with the bore on the machine)

Delmer · Aug 10, 2021

I built a tool for the swing cylinders from a piece of scrap driveshaft, and welded four teeth to a steel ring inside, the driveshaft fits over the rod and I tightened it with a ratchet strap around the base of the cylinder. It was not going to slip. Used a bar for torque. There is always a way to get them loose if you can't get them with plan A, B, or C.

Jonas302 · Aug 10, 2021

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it a few bite marks from a pipe wrench doesnt bother me one bit just dont let it slip and run a file over when done Steel glands dont damage that easy did some the other day that I set up the four foot pipe wrench on and pushed on it with a 980G loader you can hardly see the mark

If you use Hercules catalog to find your seals then enter the part # at fastliftparts.com they drop ship out of Hercules warehouse at a very much lower price

Delmer · Aug 11, 2021

Do the stabilizer cylinder first, because it's the easiest to work on, and then you'll know what you're doing with the crowd cylinder, which you can lay down and make it easy enough to get to. The swing cylinders are a different style gland, right?

I don't hone unless there's a reason to, like they're scratched up. If the seals just got old and fell apart, then put new seals only. The piston wear bushings will probably be fine also. Use thick sheet aluminum rolled up to cover the rod surface so you don't ding it with a pipe wrench.

As long as you understand the function and tricks of that JD style gland, they're easy. Push the cylinder out with the hydraulics to loosen the retaining nut, then retract the cylinder a bit before shutting off and disassembling.

Scout_1969 · Aug 11, 2021

Delmer said:
Do the stabilizer cylinder first, because it's the easiest to work on, and then you'll know what you're doing with the crowd cylinder, which you can lay down and make it easy enough to get to. The swing cylinders are a different style gland, right?

I don't hone unless there's a reason to, like they're scratched up. If the seals just got old and fell apart, then put new seals only. The piston wear bushings will probably be fine also. Use thick sheet aluminum rolled up to cover the rod surface so you don't ding it with a pipe wrench.

As long as you understand the function and tricks of that JD style gland, they're easy. Push the cylinder out with the hydraulics to loosen the retaining nut, then retract the cylinder a bit before shutting off and disassembling.

Stabilzer first makes sense, I’ll plan to then do crowd, then finish with swing.

Wrapping the rods is good idea too.

I’ll plan to use punch and/or air hammer before pipe wrench. After tapping on cylinder body outside gland threads.

The swing cylinders glands are the same ‘slotted’ (? )style as crowd and others.

I want to be sure I understand using the machine hydraulics to push the rod out; first loosen the gland, then briefly operate to extend rod. Makes sense so I don’t have to fight pulling it out by other means. If I got that right, I would think there’s some fluid spraying/leaking that I’ll put an old cut inner tube around.

Scout_1969 · Aug 11, 2021

Delmer said:
I built a tool for the swing cylinders from a piece of scrap driveshaft, and welded four teeth to a steel ring inside, the driveshaft fits over the rod and I tightened it with a ratchet strap around the base of the cylinder. It was not going to slip. Used a bar for torque. There is always a way to get them loose if you can't get them with plan A, B, or C.

The repurposed driveshaft sounds interesting, once I found one, I’d have to get someone to weld/fabricate. I’d like to see a picture of it just in case I go that route. Others online fabricated a half moon reinforced tool with a long handle that the ultimately used an air chisel on, it was a crowd cylinder though.

I'm planning on borrowing a good quality air chisel for the gland. I’ll probably ‘blunt’ the end with a grinder.

For the rod nut, I’m going to borrow a 1400 ft lb impact wrench and impact socket. I haven’t found size of rod bolt, I’m guessing 1-1/4” - 2”?

JBrady · Aug 11, 2021

Scout_1969 said:
For the rod nut, I’m going to borrow a 1400 ft lb impact wrench and impact socket. I haven’t found size of rod bolt, I’m guessing 1-1/4” - 2”?

It was already mentioned earlier, but you need a very capable compressor AND a large air hose to knock that nut off with an impact. A little pancake compressor and 1/2 air hose isn't going to work.

Tyler d4c · Aug 11, 2021

If you where close id loan you all the wrenches we made for 310b cylinders from when we still had ours.

Delmer · Aug 11, 2021

Scout_1969 said:
I want to be sure I understand using the machine hydraulics to push the rod out; first loosen the gland, then briefly operate to extend rod. Makes sense so I don’t have to fight pulling it out by other means...

NO, watch Salaam's video in post #2 again. That is the unique JD style gland, the nut is just a locknut to keep the gland pulled out. The gland is held only by a wire ring inside the cylinder, outside the gland.

The swing cylinders are different, I BELIEVE. more like a standard gland where the whole gland unscrews, I can send you the tool if it will fit yours, but give it a try first, and post a picture of your different cylinder styles, and we'll figure it out.

Scout_1969 · Aug 11, 2021

JBrady said:
It was already mentioned earlier, but you need a very capable compressor AND a large air hose to knock that nut off with an impact. A little pancake compressor and 1/2 air hose isn't going to work.

I can borrow a Milwaukee 18 volt cordless 1/2” impact that I’m told has 1400 ft lbs.

I know it’s been said to get a 3/4” air , but I haven’t found one yet. I’ll work on it, as I probably won’t get to it until 8/21, at the earliest.

I have a 30 gal(?) vertical craftsman compressor, but a 1/2” air hose. I can get the compressor next to the machine and use as short of hose as possible. I’ll try to borrow a larger hose and larger 3/4” or 1” impact.
I’ll try to get as much as possible lined up ahead of time but it may be that I will try the best with what I have; might have to delay and gather other things.

Scout_1969 · Aug 11, 2021

It looks like the 310D in the online videos is a little different than my 310B, pictures below:
The first picture is the crowd cylinder. It appears to be a one piece gland, similar to the second picture of the swing cylinder. The third picture is the stabilizer cylinder and it’s two piece, similar to the crowd cylinder in 310D video.

Scout_1969 · Aug 11, 2021

If I have it right off of JD’s site my B has a nut on the end of the rod (first picture) as opposed to a bolt like the D (second picture) .
I first need to be sure of the correct seal kits to order. It looks like the crowd and swing cylinders use AR105387.

JD 310B Backhoe Hydraulic Cylinder Rebuild Advice

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