Leveling/Grading with front bucket

To Long Don't Read? I can't level with the loader bucket, please help.

Hi all - first time poster, I'm in a HEO apprenticeship program for TLB, Dozer, Exc.

Prior to that, I've had no experience outside a lawn mower (not even construction industry exp)

Anyway, been on the TLB now for about 3 weeks in practical training (I do on the job training for 2000 hours to become journeyma). For the most part I have down controls and operation, and I have a good handle on the hoe controls (CAT 2 stick).

But, with the front loader bucket I'm really struggling on grading / smoothing and back-filling. At first I kept digging in and then up so I'd get the wave effect. Really issue is I can't yet tell when to raise or lower bucket when back-dragging, or when to adjust cutting edge angle up or down. I either seem to cut in deep, or cut nothing at all (isn't it awesome when you go to dump the material you just "cut" and your bucket is actually empty!!!)

When the instructor walks with me and I follow his hand signals I do a much better job, but on my own I suck. Others in my group had some previous training/exp so they did it really well. Other new people picked it up fast too and do a good job.

I'm not too worried about my hoe controls, D cycles etc, it kind of seemed to come naturally.

Not really sure what I'm asking, but I need to be able to level, but the problem is we don't have much more time on the TLBs. Around here most Operators hate the TLB and go for Exc/Dozer, but they say TLB is one of the hardest to operate and if I can nail this I can likely hit Exc and Dozer np.

I'm the type of person that goes balls out, so if I'm on a machine I want to do it really well, and not half ass my way through it and constantly worry about jumping from company to company.

Any thoughts?

Practice
Slow down, feel it in the seat of your pants.
Practice.
It comes with Experience.
Tom

Sometimes it helps to have the the loader bucket about half full of material. When back-dragging practice with the loader control in the float position. Tilt the loader bucket cutting edge up slightly when back-dragging so that the rear of the bucket is dragging a small amount of material. Practice, practice practice ! It takes a lot of time to learn all the different things you need to do to get a level cut and fill area.

Keep an eye on the top of the bucket, it can signal subtle changes in the loader bucket base rather than the 'indicator'.
Know that the machine is rubber tired and will respond to the weight of the loader.
Visualize the slope downward of the start of the dig and watch that point on the ground: when the front tires hit that point the machine will angle down exacerbating the loader cutting edge to dig deeper - you must compensate for all these things.
~
Watch the hand motions of successful operators to see the relatively rapid motion to remove the dead zone of the controls then the precision of the hand as it adjusts for the precise hydraulic control motion. The motion also compensates for the change in hydraulics due to engine rpm....

.....best wishes!

I'm not that great at grading either but I found it important to adjust the bucket level indicator and use it. If my cutting edge is the least bit down I can't go forward without it digging in. Having it flat to slightly up improves my chances.

A TLB is the last choice for smooth grading with the front bucket, the bucket is just so far out front and the tires have too much slop for the weight of the bucket. Even a short wheelbase skidsteer is easier to grade with.

I assume you have a bucket level indicator and know how to use it? That will be the starting point for any forward grading. Digging down in packed material with any sort of grading accuracy is not going to work with a TLB. Especially if there's slop and play in the pins, you'll have too wide of a uncontrollable slop window between digging to deep and skimming over.

You should be able to spread loose material out fairly well though. One method is to aim the cutting edge way down, like 45 degrees and adjust the height with the bucket curl as you go. If you dig into hard ground then it will do the same gouging and skipping that it does with the bucket edge near level.

Backdragging diagonally can help sometimes to get rid of the ripples. That's more of a trick than helping you with the controls.

Ask for some extra hours on the machine and practice practice practice. That's really the only way to learn. The instructor will probably give you some extra time if you ask.

I agree with Delmer that a backhoe loader is NOT the best choice for grading. I have a little John Deere with a landscape rake that will run circles around my backhoe in that department.

You can actually smooth areas with the bottom of the hoe bucket better than trying to use the loader. I recently had a road done with crushed concrete and I needed to fill the low spots before the grader and fill arrived. The dirt I purchased made a solid hump in two of the former low spots and I tried to smooth out with the loader with no success. I finally used the backhoe bucket teeth to break up the soil then the flat face to smooth it by raking side to side.

After the road was graded and covered with crushed concrete I have been able to keep it smooth with the landscape rake.

First of all you got to level a spot your TLB stay at so that your rear wheels be at level with area. If needed do it with back hoe. Second when levelin backwards put the front bucket on ground open jaw then give it a slight angel forward or outward I guess you got what i mean. And drag it backwards. If you can not catch right angle, work with back side of the bucket put it on the ground turn it upwards at max angle and drag it back. When levelin front way, take a full backet of gravel or whatever substence your work with turn outward 45degree and slightly keep it above the ground let the ground fronm the bucket fill all holes that come along the way. Important do it very slowly, it is better for one not seat at that, do it standing up to have a better view. The rest comes with practise.

[QUOTE="Honcho, post: 770985, member: 55694", do it standing up to have a better view. The rest comes with practice.[/QUOTE]
Junot51;
For your safety don't ever operate a T/L/B standing up !
If you do bad things will happen eventually.

Amen on the "bad things eventually"......

I was able to add fill material, a bucket at a time. to my future building pad. While using the machine weight to compact. Roughly 60 x 100. The ground was gentle graded initially, so my material addition was nothing to about 3 ft of rise. Worked on it over several weeks time ( odd hours here and there)
I did check my initial "small pad" for level... and just eyeballed or "felt" it from there. At the end I put a 'scope' on it and was danged surprised to see how close I ended up.
Mostly front pushing dumped loads, while the bucket was loaded. Back dragging ( also loaded) to help flatten while compacting by driving over...( and over and over).
..... all the while staying seated!!

Also 'built' a driveway on a side hill traverse the same way.

Tinkerer said:

[QUOTE="Honcho, post: 770985, member: 55694", do it standing up to have a better view. The rest comes with practice.

Click to expand...

Junot51;
For your safety don't ever operate a T/L/B standing up !
If you do bad things will happen eventually.[/QUOTE]
Sorry But I do it quite often. The rules are made to be broken.

Honcho said:

Junot51;
For your safety don't ever operate a T/L/B standing up !
If you do bad things will happen eventually.

Click to expand...

Sorry But I do it quite often. The rules are made to be broken.[/QUOTE]
Crazy Russians.

I've got a 1948 International Farmall M OS-6 tractor that has two options for operator position - either seated on a spring suspension seat or standing, chariot style. It has a large hand clutch lever that makes it easy to jump on and off to hook up a chain, load or unload a trailer, or whatever. It was designed to be operated while standing. Great machine. Starts right up and runs like a top.

Grady ;
I grew up on a farm and am an FFA Alumni. Standing up on farm tractors was quite acceptable and commonly done in those days. But, IMHO when there is a front-end loader bucket on a tractor of any type it is quite dangerous to stand while it is contact with the ground. Or even above the ground.
Curious observation in your last post, isn't a Farmall M and an OS6 two completely different tractors ?

Tinkerer, I'm not really sure about the models but it's definitely an OS6 but there's an M on the hood where most say OS6. Maybe the hoods are interchangeable and someone swapped the hood before I got it? It's a real workhorse. I think it was designed for orchard work but these days I use it mostly for getting out firewood and logs - unless someone gets stuck in the mud or snow. I have plowed and harrowed with it but it has no hydraulics so not the ideal setup for that but you use what you've got. It has the wide front end so it's stable and it's low so it can get through the woods where those taller tractors can't go.

I wasn't advocating for standing up while using a loader - my tractor doesn't have one - and I've never even attempted it but I would like to be able to see the front bucket like you can in some skid steers but even standing up won't give you that viewpoint. The hand clutch on my tractor is what makes driving while standing up possible.

I used to have to maintain the ground on an equipment yard and would use whatever was parked there to keep the surface smooth and level. What I found that worked for me on TLBs was to tilt the bucket most of the way forward so that I could see the bottom of the cutting edge touching the ground. I started this going backwards and got enough feel after awhile that I could do it forwards also. Once I had the feel of where the cutting edge was I would curl the bucket back slightly so the edge was flatter on the ground for leveling. I also put the loader in float when back dragging. If I had to move a bunch of material like a big hump I would set the bucket level and just cut the hump off and pick up the excess material as much as possible. I would then spread the material that was in the bucket by lifting it up high enough that I could see what was spilling out while I was moving. I found the trick about trying to grade going forward was that if the bucket bit into the ground I stopped at that point and back dragged to fill that dip. The front of the machine is light and will feel every dip and bump and it will show at the bucket edge every time the front wheels hit them.
Good Luck!

You have to be really careful grading going forward with the bucket titled down at around 45 degs. If it digs in the gouging will be the least of your problems if you bend or break your bucket cylinders. Spreading loose material with the bucket off the ground is OK but trying to level packed ground isn't a good idea. No different than idiots in skid steers clearing snow and ice with the bucket tilted straight down, the front wheels a foot off the ground and going full speed. A careful operator can use the bucket tilted down going forward but they go slow so they can "feel" what the bucket is doing. It starts to dig in, they stop.

One question folks are you lot backhoe operators or country boy traktor amatuars. I see no problem at all operating in a standing up position, it is mostly needed when use a 4wheel stear TLB. cause big front wheels and high hood provide poor view.

Smtimes i also stand up when using a back backet to dig very deep