Welding Rod

Blueboy · Jul 28, 2016

I was going to post this in "shop talk" but since this is my usual hang out Ill post my question here.

I need to weld this hook onto the other side of this link. Both are cast steel.
I'm not a certified welder but I have a ton of hours in welding all kinds of material with all kinds of welders.
At home I will be using my old Lincoln 225A AC welder. I don't have an oven to keep the 7018 dry so I was leaning towards 7014. But it doesn't have the penetration of 6011.

So what is the advise from the experts?
Thanks! Blueboy

lantraxco · Jul 28, 2016

I'm no expert but I would use a modified stainless, preferably Eutectic 680 but there are other similar brands out there. It's high strength, low heat, and good for unusual or dissimilar metals. I have successfully welded spring leaves with it. Not cheap, but then you're not building a bridge, just welding one hook on. YMMV

repowerguy · Jul 28, 2016

Just what Lan said, although finding a Eutectic rep can be like finding a unicorn. I have ran a lot of 680 but not on a AC low ocv machine, a 309-16 is a little like a 680 and easier to find. JMO.

lantraxco · Jul 28, 2016

I guess I didn't read that part about the AC welder, the old man used to run a lot of 1/8" with his Monkey Wards copy of a Lincoln AC 200 amp, it's not as well behaved as DC but it works.

Labparamour · Jul 28, 2016

From what I gather on another welding forum- rod storage only important for code work. If 7018AC is your choice, buy a new tin to use the day you want to weld it?

DB

lantraxco · Jul 28, 2016

Basically if the rod does not come in a sealed container, you probably don't need an oven, just keep it dry. When I was growing up, every closet in the house had some boxes of rod on the top shelf, warm and dry, lol.

hetkind · Jul 28, 2016

I would do 6011 root pass and a new box of 7018 for the follow passes. If you get the 5/32 rod, with the Lincoln 225AC box, you can weld at 100% duty cycle at 75 amps. I ran the same welder for 20 years, only recently moving up to an old Hobart T-300 AC box, it will weld at 300 amps at 60% duty cycle!

When I got the welder, I also got the Phoenix rod oven, now all my rods are warm, dry and happy.

Howard

Howard

RayF · Jul 28, 2016

They don't need anything fancy. Usually here we use 7016 or 7018 if using stick. Any standard MIG wire is good. It doesn't need an alloy wire. I've never seen one come off

old-iron-habit · Jul 28, 2016

If I need to do a weld job and it as been humid for a few days I just throw the rod in the wifes oven at 250 F for a couple hours. Amazing how nice a rod welds when it is still hot and dry.

Cmark · Jul 28, 2016

A quick and dirty way to dry out a wet low hydrogen rod on site is to just short circuit the rod to the workpiece. It'll get nice and hot in a few seconds. Do that a couple of times until it stops steaming and you're good to go.

Scrub Puller · Jul 29, 2016

Yair . . .

A quick and dirty way to dry out a wet low hydrogen rod on site is to just short circuit the rod to the workpiece.

So I wasn't the only one who did that? (Grins)

Lincoln low hydrogen tins used to lay nicely on the manifold of the Perkins that ran the old 450 Hobart.

Cheers.

Willie B · Jul 29, 2016

I wish I could find the video. There is a very old film showing through a microscope the phenomenon. When welds are made, filler melts to liquid, as does a portion of the work piece. If it is present, hydrogen molecules will migrate through the liquid steel to where they are stopped at solid steel. If cooling is slow, this barrier moves as it solidifies. Hydrogen can come from many sources. Filler is one, paint, grease, dirt, air are all sources. Fresh 7018 from a newly opened container Would be my choice. I'm no good with AC out of position. You can turn it as needed to exploit gravity.

Grind a good groove for filler. Preheat to the point where a tiny drop of water sizzles, Space the hook with 1/16" TIG filler or substitute. Use several stringer beads with 1/8" AC7018. Cool very slowly burying it in vermiculite, or in a gas grill turning down the heat gradually.

Willie

hetkind · Jul 29, 2016

I too have some welding projects today/this weekend...

There is a 1" removeable pin that keeps the hoe on my JD450B from rotating when in transport or using the loader. It failed in a brittle fashion last weekend during removal, by hand. A temporary pin "fabricated" from A36 at 3/4" diameter rod bent fairly quickly. Yesterday, I obtained a 36" long rod of 1" O2 tool steel. I suspect it is too think and firm to hot bend with a torch, and if I use my forge to heat, I would have to fabricate tongs. Instead, cutting the correct length and welding a second length T style onto looks like my best option.

My procedure will be to preheat, root pass with 6011, reheat, follow passes with 7018, post heat, then stick in rod oven to cool very slowly. Then heat in forge to 1200F, oil quench, reheat to 600 and recool in rod oven.

That should give me a good weld and 120k ultimate strength. If I get my heat treat close, I should still have decent ductility.

Howard

norite · Jul 29, 2016

If that hook is to be used to attach rigging to hoist things, which is what it is designed for, I suggest you get a certified welder to do this for you. He will have the correct rod, a capable machine and the skill and judgement to make sure that hook is attached properly. In addition the manufacturer should have a welding procedure for installing that hook.

Your experience and knowledge, low OCV welder which does not work well with 7018, and not having the proper rods available and intended use seem to suggest that this one would be better done professionally. There is lot's of things you can weld yourself, this is not one of them. If that weld fails and someone gets hurt how would you feel?

Blueboy · Jul 29, 2016

I did a little moonlighting on a welding forum. A lot of the same ideas... But we're not reinventing the wheel here either.
This is a comment I posted:

"All good advice, thanks!

Quote Originally Posted by Bls repair
I have never seen a hook welded there.What weight limit on the hook.How thick is the plate you are welding to?

You have a good point. The bucket has a mount for a ripper hook (or whatever it's called) which I am about to burn off. It keeps getting in the way digging and when using the loader it gouges the ground behind me. With it gone, I could put the lifting hook up out of the way closer to the link. I'm beginning to like that idea the more I think about it.
It's a 5 ton hook and the link is 9/16 thick. The hook manufacturer recommends a minimum of 1/2. The bucket should be at least that. The only problem is the bucket is curved, which means a little gap to fill.

............."

Just wondering what you guys think about moving the hook onto the bucket.

Here is the link if you want to take a look.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?627371-Lifting-Hook

norite · Jul 29, 2016

Blueboy said:
Just wondering what you guys think about moving the hook onto the bucket.

That's where mine are. (bh and ex)

Willie B · Jul 29, 2016

Burn a hole in it. Cut it down somewhat. Use a shackle to connect a chain. My Case 580K has a simple weld on hook I bought from my Case dealer. It is never in the way, is strong enough to handle the power of the machine. The bottom of mine begins about at the top of where your bunion begins. It has never fallen off, and I can curl the bucket in all the way, and shiver the crowd to shake the chain off.

Willie

John C. · Jul 29, 2016

When I carried welding certs critical welds were only done with DC and low hydrogen or high alloy rod. You can weld that on using 6011 but it will not look very professional and will be a quick catch point of the wandering eye of a safety professional or operator with an axe to grind. If you are only using the machine for private use then it really doesn't matter what you do. I've welded lot of those on using 7018 or 718 wire and never had a problem. Just preheat enough to drive the moisture out of the base metal and hook, then poor the rod to it.

You could check into renting a DC machine for this one job. That buzz box won't take a lot of heavy current without a lot of cooling off time.

Plongson · Jul 29, 2016

hetkind said:
I would do 6011 root pass and a new box of 7018 for the follow passes.

+10 What he said...But MUCH better job if done on a DC machine...

Blueboy · Jul 29, 2016

Look what I found

Its only the welding instructions.

A good size DC welder would be nice to have in my arsenal, but the buzz box will have to do for now.

norite said:
There is lot's of things you can weld yourself, this is not one of them. If that weld fails and someone gets hurt how would you feel?

I appreciate your concern but this is why I am making double sure I use the right rod and procedure. I actually planed on preheating and using 7018 rod if nothing better was suggested. It was the standard where I used to work and no one got hurt from my welds and rigging.
While researching this I did learn that moisture will compromise the integrity of 7018. Altho there isn't a lot of moisture in the Tucson Az desert.

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