Go see this now!!!

Have you actually produced any of these trucks yet?

By the way, I could do without all the pop-ups I get navigating your site. I'm not interested in ring tones or anything else unrelated to your truck.

The only problem I see is the cost of buying tires

With them steering and driving a haul truck like that probably peals the rubber off.

Probably the biggest benefit is the trucks don't need a perfectly graded haul road.

Have to see if Alberta oil companies buy any for hauling the black mud.

nice product/innovation but would like to see a real one...

Welcome HDTruck, awesome looking machine. Hopefully some of our input here will aid in the building of trucks and equipment in the future, if other CEO's are open and will to talk like yourself.
Trbo

Off-Highway Road Trains

To Steve Frazier:
- You talk like my banker They're not produced yet but the design challenges were huge. We are ready for the first orders.
- Turn on your pop-up blocker in Internet Explorer, that will solve this issue. Sorry for the inconvenience.

To Ford LT-9000:
- The investment in tyres is roughly the same as for Large Haul trucks to carry the same load, however we lift 50% of the tyres during the empty haul and that reduces the tyre costs significantly.
- Steering axles prevent wringing from the tyres and they are not scrubbing the rubber off like with the front wheel tyres of Large Haul trucks.
- The oscilating axle configuration ensures that the tyres are always loaded equally. Compare this with twinned rear tyres of Large Haul Trucks. If one of the tyres from a twinned pair goes over a stone the other tyre is also lifted and it means that one tyre gets 100% overloaded. This is happening many times per hour and causes heating up of the tyres. Our tyres run much cooler.
- Our Road Trains are very suitable for Oilsand fields. Especially in summer time when the "black mud" gets softer and the trucks have to drive against a wave. Our all-wheel-drive and better load spreading will really pay off there. Talk to the guys over there, we would lover to supply them.

To Equipment fan:
- We keep you informed as soon as the first one is delivered.

To EZ TRBO:
- We want to make the best possible solution and therefore your input is very important to us. Please keep on feeding us and be critical.

Thank you all and best regards,
Eddy

Eddy - Your new truck design is rather interesting, but I think there are maybe three factors that will be difficult to overcome, to develop sales with this radical design of truck.

1. The open-pit mines in most parts of the world use a 1 in 7, or 1 in 8, ramp slope for efficiency.
With your design, weight transfer to the rear, on a typical mining ramp slope, means that the rear two axles, end up carrying 80-90% of the gross weight. This surely must result in rear axle/tyre overload ..
On a current standard design dump truck, the rear axle carries 4 of the vehicles 6 tyres, and thus the tyre loading is balanced, when climbing out of pits.
Long distance, flat travelling, as encountered on the surface, tends to overload front tyres on current design trucks .. but mine dump trucks spend 80% of their time climbing out of pits, fully loaded .. so the loading is balanced out, overall.

2. I am having trouble trying to envisage an easy, and low cost way, to change those inside tyres! ..

3. Your truck sounds like an extremely complex nightmare of electronics, sensors, and wiring. These three items are the least durable part of any earthmoving equipment .. they cause the most downtime .. and they are generally overpriced about 500% in comparison to simple mechanical parts.
I know that design costs and research costs have to be figured into electronic costs .. but some of the electronic parts costs I have seen, would make even a millionaire wince ..
It's not only the cost of these complex items .. it's trying to get the people with the necessary electronic/electric troubleshooting and repair skills, onto remote minesites to keep this equipment running, that causes most headaches for CEO's/managers/foremen ..

As a result .. simple is good .. minimum electronics is also good .. if electronics HAVE to be used .. they have to totally sealed, easy to repair, OVER-PROTECTED (not just well-protected) .. and high temperature, corrosion and vibration proof.

As a matter of interest, my nephew has produced a design similar to yours .. a 4 axle, 8 wheel truck .. but with single wheels.
The truck is diesel-electric, uses AC wheel motors .. follows the best LeTourneau design, in having all the wiring harness in identical section lengths, so inventory is reduced, and any damaged section can be unclipped and replaced in minutes .. and has all the electronic components mounted inside the cabin, as best protection from shock, damage, dust, corrosion and vibration ..

He holds numerous patents on the design, and has been to all the major truck manufacturers including Cat and Komatsu, giving presentations on his design .. and they all flatly refused any interest in producing the truck .. due to them claiming the benefits were not substantial enough, to warrant major re-tooling, re-design, and replacement of current designs.
Whether that was a ploy .. to allow them time to study ways around his patents, and produce their own designs, copied from his design .. only time will tell ..

In the meantimes, he's gone to China with the design, and has agreements in place with Chinese manufacturers, to produce and market the truck.
I told him my concerns about the design (the same three I listed above) .. and he reckons I'm exaggerating the potential problems, and it will sell like hot scones at a church fete ..

He's always been an optimist .. but he knows earthmoving equipment and mining, as he was brought up in our earthmoving/mining family .. so he's well qualified to produce improved designs.
He also has very good local design engineer, as a partner .. who has designed much new equipment, such as the Rhino blade for loaders (now combined with Tiger Engineering, and re-named the Tiger blade - and produced in conjunction with the original Tiger wheeldozer blade).

Tiger blades .. http://www.specialisedmachine.com.au/index.html


The nephew claims the big advantage of his truck design, is a longer, narrower truck, that can carry bigger payloads, on existing mine ramps .. without widening them.
As it stands at present .. anytime any company wants to upgrade to bigger trucks .. all the mine roads and ramps have to be widened at huge cost. A truck that can carry a bigger payload on current roads and ramps does have a big selling advantage ..

Watch this space ..

Welcome back Eddy...

The dumpers in the middle....
Are they side dumpers?

FWIW, I really hope these plans become reality!
People like you who are not afraid to try new ideas and concepts brings about much needed change in this stale world we live in.
Like a kid dreaming about the day when he will finally get to operate that big yellow tractor, I am sure that one day your dreams/visions will come to life.

Till then, I'm saving for a plane ticket.
When this finally happens, I do wish I could be there...

You just have to send info to companies like Syncrude in Alberta who are in the tar sands. The oil business in Alberta is going great guns and if they can move the sands quicker and more efficiently they will look at it.

From your website: "In 2005 the engineering activities were moved to the Emirate Ras Al Khaimah in the United Arab Emirates where also the prototype is constructed."

Do you have photos of this prototype? I'm sure our members would love to see them!

RollOver Pete said:

Welcome back Eddy...

The dumpers in the middle....
Are they side dumpers?

Click to expand...

Yes Pete, All dumpers are side dumpers in order to unload quickly, in some cases it could even be two-way side tippers. This depends on the product, for sand it can be done, for rocks it cannot.
We will keep this forum informed when the first ETF Road Train is ready. You're very welcome to see and drive it than.
Cheers,
Eddy

Technical answers

OzDozer said:

Your new truck design is rather interesting,

Click to expand...

Dear OzDozer, I am always pleased to have reactions from Down Under as the Road Trains are common equipment in your continent.
Let me try to answer your questions and comments:

1. Overloading of tyres:
To calculate the load transfer from the front axles to the rear on inclines there are three things we have to know; firstly the height of the Center Of Gravity, secondly the wheelbase and thirdly the incline itself. Well organised Open-pit mines are having inclines of between 10-12 % otherwise the speed of the vehicles are getting too low.
Current Large Haul Trucks have a weight distribution of empty: 47% front and 53% on the rear axle. Laden this is: front 33% and rear 66%. This is a perfect distribution as the rear axles have 4 tyres and the front axle two tyres. The COG is approx. 5,5 m heigh, with ETF this is 3 metres. The wheelbase of a comparable Large Haul Truck is 5,7 m and with ETF 6 m.
When we calculate the difference in weight distribution on a 10% incline we end up with 9% increase on the rear axle and 9% decrease on the front axle of a Large Haul Truck. In our case this is 5%. So you see that we are better in that respect.

The configuration of twinned tyres on the rear is a considerable disadvantage compared to single wheels with oscilating axles as ETF has. If a twinned tyred wheel drives over a stone or hole in the road one of the two tyres is 100% overloaded! This happens many times per hour and result in heat build-up of these tyres. In our case the tyres are always equally loaded! See the attached pictures.

2. I appreciate your sharp mind. When an inside tyre is flat we change the complete axle.(15 min.) This have to be done in the workshop because we need special tooling for that. Before arriving in the workshop the axle with the flat tyre is lifted, so no damage to the tyre. Compare this with a flat tyre on current trucks, if it is a front tyre the customer is in trouble. It will take a long time to change a wheel!
By the way we will only sell our trucks with a Repair & Maintenance contract. This means that the customer pays a fixed amount of money per working hour and everything is carried out by our own people in a workshop build on site.

3. Your worries are real, but unfortunatly we need the modern electronics to optimise the productivity. On sensors we use all wireless types, which don't need any wiring. All our wires are specially designed for the severe conditions the trucks are operating in. We use the same system for wiring as LeTourneau and the price is reasonable. We don't need to get rich overnight!

What an interesting story about the design of your nephew. I would really like to come in contact with him.
I understand the problems of re-tooling, re-design and replacement of current designs of the big five manufacturers. This is the very reason why we made a modular design for all our vehicles. And it is also the reason why they are not coming with better solutions. They will only do that when the market ask for it and that will happen when we are in full swing. This is the chance for outsiders in this market.

The trend for heavier vehicles is solved with our modular design with adding axles and engines, all of the same type so no extra parts are needed. Please have a look at the page " modular design" under "Innovations" at our web site for more details.

Thanks for your contribution, we really value it!
Cheers,
Eddy

Photo's prototype

We will put them on this forum when they are ready.

"Take a look at this: http://www.etf.ae/products/trucks

These vehicles can do both jobs." - hdtruck


Yeah, I thought a little bit about replying to a thread that hasn't been replied to in more then 9 months now.

But noticing that no one actually made any comment to hdtruck's picture, I myself couldn't help wondering about the image.

Hmmmm....the Emirates Truck Factory.:beatsme
Do they actually built those things? I guess so, having seen the pict of one of them rolling along a site-road.
But I wonder, is THAT design really worth something? Those trucks -in my view- seem a little of a old sci-fi era, don't you think? Quadruple wheel-mountings per what it hardly can be conceived as an axle???? The wheels arrangement might be OK (with lots and lots of reservations) but that mono-rail frame...hmmm...doesn't look too rigid to me.
Also it was funny to see some of the drawings showing the "innovative" solutions such a ETF truck presents vs. current large haul-trucks.

Perhaps the Arabs do have a way with their things and money, but for one, I just can't imagine those things hauling extensively in mines like Morenci (US) or Kalgoorlie (Australia):nono

cat4ever said:

Hmmmm....the Emirates Truck Factory.:beatsme
Do they actually built those things? I guess so, having seen the pict of one of them rolling along a site-road.

Click to expand...

We attempted to get some proof of a prototype...or any production...but none was forthcoming. Nothing on that sites appears to be a real photograph.:beatsme

I'm not sure about websites that have a lot of pop-ups too:cool2

Hi Cat4Ever,

The main difference with ETF trucks and the conventional Large Haul Trucks is the fact that the whole weight is euqually spread over eight points. Normally 4 and not equally!!

The suspension has a wheel travel of 1000 mm which absorbs the loading and road stresses and so the chassis is not effected.

You have to wait till we have a demonstration vehicle ready and than you are more than welcome to make a test drive in the mountains and in the desert. We have both here.

Beginning of next year it will be ready.

Best regards from the Desert, Eddy de Jongh ETF

I do understand the wheel configuration's purpose hdtruck. My point concerning the frame though is that -although per your say- those wheel travels are meant to absorb the greater deal of road stresses, there's a totally different case with the loading stresses. Those are passing through the frame before reaching the suspensions (or your wheel travel). To me, your truck's frame seems just weak enough in dealing with the punching given by a 30-50 m3 capacity shovel loads on a extended period of time.

Plus, from the drawings, I can see that there are multiple steering groups of wheels (again, I can't refer to them as axles...) so my next question would be: what's the traction like, on your trucks. Don't tell me 16x16.:eek2

Another problem with that design would be the expenditures. 16 wheels? That's a lot of them. And tyres too.

All in all it's a pretty costly affair in my opinion. If it wasn't, the established manufacturers would've built it long ago.

If you want a real laugh, click the ETF link above in post #20, and whern you get rid of the annoying pop ups, look to the top left, and click on "scrapers"

Be sure to have a firm seating position first so you do not fall out of your chair!

"If you want a real laugh, click the ETF link above in post #20, and whern you get rid of the annoying pop ups, look to the top left, and click on "scrapers"

Be sure to have a firm seating position first so you do not fall out of your chair!" - JDOFMEMI



:lmao

Is that a garbage truck?

:lmao

The load impacts are handled by 8 points on the chassis and then go to the suspension. Compare that with a conventional Large Haul truck with practically no wheel travel in the back. This means that the load impacts have to be handled by the chassis.

I don't understand why you cannot see the axles. One axles line consists of two individual axles which can oscillate 10 degrees left and right. Each axle has an independent suspension. Each wheel has its own wheel motor, so 16 wheels is 16x16!!

Regarding expenditure 16 wheels with 24.00R35 tyres weigh 16 ton. Compared to 6 wheels with 37.00R57 weigh 26 ton. Also the price is lower for 16 of our sizes compared to 6x 37.00R57. The running costs of the tyres is even more attractive as during empty haul 8 tyres are lifted. (50 % of the working hours)

Talking about costly affair: In the tropics the conventional trucks are down to weather conditions (rain makes the haul roads too slippery for them) 8 % of the working hours. Try to imagine what it means if you can increase your productivity with 8% with the same capital costs. By the way this advantage goes also for arctic countries where snow and ice is the problem.

Keep on asking my friend!