Cable vs. hydraulic

Greg · Apr 18, 2013

grandpa said:
And the next complaint I have is someone saying the old operators were the best and the new one,s aren't. That too is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard. Don't underestimate the younger generation. Don't blow your own horn so loud you can't hear the music around you!!!

These young fellow's are bigger, faster, smarter and superior in just about everything. And if you don't think so then you probably think a caveman was superior also,,,, good god!!! Records were set to be broke,,, I don't think I can think of a record that will stand for eternity.

Settle down there gramps.

There has always been excellent operators, average operators and p*** poor ones in every generation.

I have seen young ones DEMAND air conditioned cabs, stereo systems and GPS or they won't consider a position with a contractor that does not have it. Oh ya, they want to set the work schedule too.

These kinds are nothing more than a machine driver, not an operator. When the GPS don't work or the job is not set up for it they are useless. If the air in the cab or stereo don't work they are gone home till it gets fixed. The young ones might be bigger, they might be able to move faster and in some cases smarter. In an operator bigger does not make better, moving faster does not mean a thing if half the moves are wasted, I have seen a lot of them in a lot of ways that aren't smarter, like they can't shoot grade, can't do simple math without a calculator, can't read a print.

I am not saying that all of the young guys are no good gramps but I have seen a lot of them that would never plant their ass on the seat of a machine that belonged to me. By the same token I have seen a lot of middle aged and older guys the same way too.

Scrub Puller · Apr 18, 2013

Yair . . . Well said Greg I think grandpa was a bit upset by a couple of my statements . . . he often is.

"Skill" these days is being replaced by technology on the machines.

How you view that fact will vary with your circumstance. From the owners point of view an electronic machine with preset shift points that prevent damage and even allow reverse to be selected at full power (as I believe are now available) will provide some piece of mind . . . while the bloody thing is working.

Personaly, I'd rather have a simpler machine and be prepared to kick some arse.

Imagine what would happen if you took a crew of "operators" off a job today and put them on a similar fleet of 1960's gear?

The point I make is that there is still 1960's gear working . . . how much of the modern gear they are on now will be working in fifty years, and who would want it to be working?

Cheers

td25c · Apr 18, 2013

DPete said:
The Cat #25 unit ran off the trans and was as you say, the #29 had a pto shaft off the rear of the engine ( under the floor deck)and was live power

Thats interesting DPete.The #29 with the live power would been a nice option.I wish my old allis would have had live power but I got used to it.My only experience with cable dozers was the HD16 allis that I had and wrenching on my buddys IH td20.I never did get to operate a cat cable dozer.My 16 was a 1956 model and my buddys 20 was a 1959.They were allot of fun,allot of good memories.

Construct'O · Apr 18, 2013

Since we are talking units i have a BeGe hydraulic unit that fits on a D6C or D that you can use to pull a hydralic scraper with.It is self contained.Tank,pump valve and everything all togather.

Bolts up just like cable unit with the driveshaft running off the shaft on the powershift.

It is for sale! Email works if interested.

It has a clutch adapter to turn the unit on and off when your not using it.Used it pulling a 14 yard Asland hydraulic scraper around.

Any unit on a powershift dozer should be live.

caterpillarRy · Apr 22, 2013

I'm not a fan of any newer machines for the simple reason of my newest 3t (1953 40 or so years older than me) sat for about 20 or 25 before i got it and it could be put on a trailer to a job tomorrow and only have minimal problems from sitting try that with a brand new d7e and tell me how it goes.

Scrub Puller · Apr 22, 2013

Yair. . . caterpillarRy Yes mate (I'm grinning) I've said the same thing on here a time or two myself.

Cheers.

Jedstivers · Apr 22, 2013

grandpa said:
And the next complaint I have is someone saying the old operators were the best and the new one,s aren't. That too is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard. Don't underestimate the younger generation. Don't blow your own horn so loud you can't hear the music around you!!!

These young fellow's are bigger, faster, smarter and superior in just about everything. And if you don't think so then you probably think a caveman was superior also,,,, good god!!! Records were set to be broke,,, I don't think I can think of a record that will stand for eternity.[/
That's a good post but my boys are 6 and 8. I bought a old D6C that they will learn on, I've told several people that the older machines make operators, the new ones make steering wheel holders. I'm also keeping a old R model Mack up and running so it will be there for them to learn on. Now I'll preface this by saying some of my JD tractors are only a year or two old, they make them now much easier to put someone on that doesn't know anything and get them running but they still won't be operators. I want my boys to be able to do better than me on anything and I've been running stuff for 36 years.

North Texan · Apr 23, 2013

Never had to run a cable dozer.

Never felt like I missed much, though. I think I'll just stick with the JD750 for now.

ih100 · Apr 23, 2013

Jedstivers said:
grandpa said:

That's a good post but my boys are 6 and 8. I bought a old D6C that they will learn on, I've told several people that the older machines make operators, the new ones make steering wheel holders. I'm also keeping a old R model Mack up and running so it will be there for them to learn on. Now I'll preface this by saying some of my JD tractors are only a year or two old, they make them now much easier to put someone on that doesn't know anything and get them running but they still won't be operators. I want my boys to be able to do better than me on anything and I've been running stuff for 36 years.

Click to expand...

I've lost count of the post-1980 machines I've operated, but I'm pleased I operated fixed blades/clutch and gearbox/no cab as well or I wouldn't be able to call myself an operator. I feel sorry for some of the youngsters coming up doing exactly the same type of earthwork in exactly the same earth as me, and they'll never be operators because - they've never used donkey engines/cable blades/draglines, etc. By the way, I've never operated cable either, so perhaps after nearly 40 years chucking muck I'm not really an operator.

tctractors · Apr 23, 2013

I have just about driven every style of Muck shift Iron that is or was common to find on site work within the U.K., I now know that my best ever moment was cabbed up in a D7 47A tractor and scraper (Cable Control) this was realy the first bit of Muck that I had to shift without anyone else involved, it was my job only, running in a mob on cut and fill sites cannot compare to being the Top Dog on your Site (only Dog on this 1) anyhow the brain was put into silent 5th as I worked out the best way to shift the site about and get the best work out of the tractor, the D7 had just been rebuilt to as a new tractor should be, so I also had to keep a good eye on the paint work and gauges, the weather was top draw (for the U.K.) plus the smell of the soil will stay with me even past Peters Gate if I go that way??? the kick on the cable and graunch of the winch plates as the grass clumped soil heaved in then fell out of the 70 scraper like Sugar on a cake, no JD750 or anything would compair to the Nectar I was in at that moment of my life.

tctractors cable is the new Hydraulics

ih100 · Apr 23, 2013

tctractors said:
I have just about driven every style of Muck shift Iron that is or was common to find on site work within the U.K., I now know that my best ever moment was cabbed up in a D7 47A tractor and scraper (Cable Control) this was realy the first bit of Muck that I had to shift without anyone else involved, it was my job only, running in a mob on cut and fill sites cannot compare to being the Top Dog on your Site (only Dog on this 1) anyhow the brain was put into silent 5th as I worked out the best way to shift the site about and get the best work out of the tractor, the D7 had just been rebuilt to as a new tractor should be, so I also had to keep a good eye on the paint work and gauges, the weather was top draw (for the U.K.) plus the smell of the soil will stay with me even past Peters Gate if I go that way??? the kick on the cable and graunch of the winch plates as the grass clumped soil heaved in then fell out of the 70 scraper like Sugar on a cake, no JD750 or anything would compair to the Nectar I was in at that moment of my life.

tctractors cable is the new Hydraulics

My golden moment was on my first 100B when the boss finally stopped yelling instructions and left me to it for the first time. I was top chihuahua.

IH100 - hydraulics is the new hydraulics, unless you're R G LeTourneau, in which case electrics is the new cable.

stinkycat · Apr 23, 2013

Lord tc you brought tears to my old eyes. But you left out the pain of the fish hooks on the cable and the cussing of retreading the broken cable on a #70 or 80 can and the #29 ccu's were the best. But I enjoyed hydraulics on somethings.

caterpillarRy · Apr 23, 2013

Wow I think I'm the youngest guy to have much respect for the old cable machine here I'm not even out of high school yet but then again I've been helping my grandfather wrench on the old beasts since I could hand him a wrench.

Ron Burgundy · Apr 23, 2013

After using a six-way I find it hard to believe anyone would want anything else. Educate me: Fixed blades are strictly for big machines, right? Like pushing big mounds of material. Other than that, I don't get why anyone would want one. Sorry, sort of a newbie at this.

grandpa · Apr 23, 2013

caterpillarRy said:
Wow I think I'm the youngest guy to have much respect for the old cable machine here I'm not even out of high school yet but then again I've been helping my grandfather wrench on the old beasts since I could hand him a wrench.

I have respect for them,,, don't get me wrong, but I also respect the oil lantern I carried out to the outhouse in the dead of winter..... but can't say I'd have any use for them now!!! lol Gramps.

Bruce Higgins · Apr 23, 2013

It's nice to know that one of these days I will be able to operate a steam powered cable dozer. Never laugh at any technology because someday you might be asked to operate it.

caterpillarRy · Apr 23, 2013

Ron Burgundy said:
After using a six-way I find it hard to believe anyone would want anything else. Educate me: Fixed blades are strictly for big machines, right? Like pushing big mounds of material. Other than that, I don't get why anyone would want one. Sorry, sort of a newbie at this.

Someone would want something else when the cant afford a machine with a 6 way blade or if the need something to big for a 6 way to be practical also I don't understand the use for it anyway if your a good enough operator you don't need it at all.

John C. · Apr 24, 2013

I don't care how good you are. No sloppy string controlled blade is going to be able to run a fine grade with the same accuracy and speed that a PAT is capable of. If you are going to push stumps or rough in a site then the string unit might be good enough. If you are grading for a building foundation, a juicer with PAT is the only way to go.

grandpa · Apr 24, 2013

John C. said:
I don't care how good you are. No sloppy string controlled blade is going to be able to run a fine grade with the same accuracy and speed that a PAT is capable of. If you are going to push stumps or rough in a site then the string unit might be good enough. If you are grading for a building foundation, a juicer with PAT is the only way to go.

:iagree

caterpillarRy · Apr 26, 2013

John C. said:
I don't care how good you are. No sloppy string controlled blade is going to be able to run a fine grade with the same accuracy and speed that a PAT is capable of. If you are going to push stumps or rough in a site then the string unit might be good enough. If you are grading for a building foundation, a juicer with PAT is the only way to go.

My grandfather ran the old cable machines right up until about the early 90's for people on building jobs. All that technology is great but it is of no use to anyone if its broken and you can grade just as well with an old string job it just takes skill to do and you may have to back blade more if dont have enough skill. Now tell me what did people graded with before all that electronic stuff to help them in grading and juicers of any quality. Also an old cable job cost pocket change compared to a brand new d4.

Cable vs. hydraulic

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Banned

Senior Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member