looking to buy a backhoe, any advice

I've never heard of these electrical problems. It doesn't mean that they don't exist but I doubt it's a common enough problem that you will likely have a problem with every unit out there. IMO the "banana boom" is mostly a marketing tool. I have operated a long time prior to the availability of them, and a long time since. Cat introduced it in the B series and Deere followed suit a few years later. I think it adds some strength to the boom (after they got the design perfected, mine was replaced with updated version under warranty) as you don't see hardly any boom failures anymore. There may be some actual leverage advantages but I can't notice them. I remember Cat claimed an advantage for reaching over obstacles (like walls). This may have some merrit but, from what I can tell, it might give you a few more inches. It may offer some advantages in visibility. If you look at an excavator boom you can see more of a need for the design (especially when you consider how the boom rams are mounted). The backhoe does not mount the boom ram in the same fasion as the excavator. IMO Deere hoes are good machines. I would stick with the S (or "super") versions.

I've had 4 backhoes in my family since 1963. I'm 17, and going into the trade as soon as I'm done school. Operating backhoes is my speciality, so that's why I'm doing it. Ran case all my life, they are the best machine out there, i've heard too many bad things about cat, and deere, and other companys thaat think they have what it takes. I have a 06 super m series 2 bought it 4400 hrs on it. It is solid, and it the best shape a machine like that can ever be. The only thing I need to do with it is put on a hydraulic hose, and fix the ride control. Have pilots on it also, love it. My grandpa used to have a 1986 580 super Eand it was a good machine, loved it, and miss it, but the m that I have now is awesome. I probably get a older machine someday because with new machines, there are too many electronics, and that costs a lot to fix when there broken down. I'd be interested in a super L down the road or a super k. Also what really helps on the machines without ride control, is that I put my dipper, out 2 to 4 feet, trust me it helps, a lot you go faster, it's also a very comfy ride, and you can push more with it too I find, everyone should try this, and see what they think. Let me know,

I guess I'll pipe up here.
I've been wanting a backhoe for a few years now... haven't seriously pursued anything until just recently. Honestly don't know what I NEED, just know that it's most likely better to be too big than too small. My other issue... I've never used a backhoe. That alone makes it hard to check one out. Unfortunately where I am, I typically will need to drive 1-3 hours to see something, so getting somebody that knows backhoes to go with me is tough. I have a small Kubota tractor with loader and scraper... so I have a bit of a clue what to look for, just don't know how to operate the backhoe.
ANYWAY.... I've been reading around on here and gathering what info I can. My preference is to not spend over $10k if I can help it. Makes it tough from what I'm seeing though, as the older ones for less $$ can also have bigger problems. I'm guessing once I have it, it'll be lucky to see 30-40 hours of use a year. I have some bigger jobs I need to do now... but beyond that, who knows.

Seems like I see more Case 580's around me than anything. I found a 580B that a guy has basically rebuilt everything on for $7500, looks new really,--- up to a 580 Super D that's extremely clean with about 4100hours for about $11,000. Anything beyond that pricing I haven't bothered with.

I'm not even sure I'm really asking a question here...
Is something like the older rebuilt 580B even something to consider... or should I really lean towards something bigger/newer?

Welcome motochris!
If I had to choose between a 580B & a 580D with $3500 difference - I would go the D! (X eleventy thousand times) :yup
It is ALOT easier to work on as all components are bolted to a chassis - rather than ARE the chassis like a B. + more power & easier resale when you don't need it anymore.
$7500 for a B is alot of money, but if it has had alot of repairs done to it, it may be OK. If you pay less for another B, but you will be sure to spend dollars on it.
In fact you should prepare to spend a few dollars on anything you buy.......

You make good points I wasn't aware of on the B chassis tractor, thank you. I'm afraid even a fresh older tractor will be less than what I want in the end. Obviously it'de be nice to spend less, but I'de kick myself for it not doing what I want.
I'll most likely do way more loader work than backhoe work with whatever I get. That makes me lean towards a 4wd unit, but those tend to be even more money.
I can get away with a 2wd. I'm more concerned about a quality tractor.

Any reason why I should pick a D model over a C model.. other than just being newer?

motochris said:

I'll most likely do way more loader work than backhoe work with whatever I get. That makes me lean towards a 4wd unit, but those tend to be even more money.
I can get away with a 2wd. I'm more concerned about a quality tractor.

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Welcome to the Forums motochris!:drinkup

If you will be using the loader end more, I would highly recommend 4 wheel drive, it will make your life easier.

motochris, welcome to the forum and also the adventure of looking for a backhoe, I've looked at more junk out there than I ever knew existed and am still looking for the machine I can afford and yet not be a complete pile of junk, I had oil samples pulled on a deere 310e and had the paperwork done when the engine oil samples came back bad, now we're back to square one again. All the case machines I looked at were either 10k overpriced or had major issues that needed fixing. I'm not sure what type of work you'd be doing, or in what type of conditions, but if you can live with a 2 wheel drive machine, it opens up a lot of options for you, check out the sales sites around, ironplanet.com, ritchie brothers, purplewave, alex lions auctions, and a few others.

I'd also agree with airman on the newer machine being a better deal. Do you need an extendahoe, or standard hoe? cab or open rops? As for not knowing what you need, everyone's opinion is based on what they need and use, so thus everyone has a different opinion, something to keep in mind, not that its a bad thing, just something to remember, as for what you need, give it your best guess and start somewhere, I started looking for a cheap bare bones machine, decided I wanted all the options available for a few dollars more, which is where I'm having problems finding what I want, the more options you set your mind on the harder it is to find a good machine that fits those criteria in the price range your wanting, I've already raised my price range twice now and I'm not going any higher due to the payback and hours I'd use the machine.

Keep asking questions, these guys here can answer most any question you have, so don't be shy, they are a wealth of knowledge and are willing to give you information if you ask, most any model out there made or ever built someone here has run and put hours on them and has information to give, both good and bad points of the machines. Good luck in your search

Thanks for the input Randy and the list of additional sites. I hadn't seen or heard of those yet.
My planned use is just around my property. I live on 10 acres in the desert...rare to see mud here. Mostly sand and clay based dirt.
Other than building an arena for our horses... it'll be used for just basic backyard stuff. Hauling sand to the arena, hauling and spreading manure (though that job may be with the Kubota) etc. I don't have alot of work for it really, but one would sure make some tasks easier.
That's part of my issue... for how much I REALLY need one, I could rent one and be ahead. That said, having one around, it would sure get used alot more than if I had to rent one.
I'm waffling back and forth over to buy cheap and learn what I need from there or just go all in now.
I found a 79 Ford 4500 in what seems to be fairly reasonable shape for about $5500. I'm having a buddy go look at it this weekend for me. It's diesel, hour meter shows about 2000 hours though the owner doesn't know if it's correct. He said he's had it about 7 years and put about 100 hours on it and the hour meter worked as it should that whole time. Gonna need swing cylinders resealed and a front tire.

I make my living with my equipment as do many, if not most, on this site. Much of the advice will come from that perspective. I would not buy this tractor because it won't fit the bill for me. Based on what you have said about your needs I would think that it is almost perfect, depending on what condition it's in. On the surface it looks fine for a tractor that has been sitting in the sun that long. The unknowns are the unseen. If I were looking at this machine I would work it for a while. Get it good and hot. Work it hard. You need to put it to the test to see if the engine, tranny, and hydraulics stay strong when hot. If anything acts funky it suggests it's time for replacment or rebuild of that component. I certainly like the price, again, if it's in good shape. Swing cylinder rebuild may run you around $500 each (my guess) at a hydraulic shop. 4wd will be very helpful in sandy ground, not just mud. I don't think you will find 4wd in a backhoe that is as old as that one.

As they say, use your best judgement on what you think you need and can afford, ironplanet, can give both auction results and also machine inspections to compare one to the other, a very useful thing, same goes for auction results at ritchie brothers, or www.rbauction.com. I try to compare asking and selling prices of machines, mainly because if I don't like what I buy, its a good way to figure out what you can sell the same machine for after your done with it, or if I want to sell it, most times anything I have to trade in isn't worth much on trade so I'm better off selling it outright somehow. Do some searches of a ford 4500 to see what they have sold for lately in not only your area but others, then do some math to figure out what the sales commission is going to be for the one selling it and then haggle on the price some to adjust it some if need be to come about the same price for the guy selling it anyway else, no need to pay retail if the seller is only going to get wholesale anyhow from anyone else out there, just a suggestion is all.

I understand fully if you have basically no mud to contend with why spend the money on 4x4, by buying a cheaper machine you will also figure out exactly what you should have bought, seems like that's how I do things anyhow, the first time is the experiment to tell me what I should have bought instead or update to later on down the road of life. Renting can also do this for you if you can rent a machine somewhere out there to play with and find out what you like or dislike.

As for operating the backhoe your looking at, just try it out, go play with it and then ask questions as to what things should act like or perform like from the guys here on HEF and they can tell you what you need to know about that machine. I've never ran a ford backhoe of that vintage before so I can't tell you much about it, other than make sure it runs good and has good hydraulic power and doesn't make weird noises and is jerky and all welded up or the pins and bushings are shot and there is considerable slop in the joints, go look at as many used backhoes as you can to compare one to the other, even if its not exactly what your wanting to buy, any comparison is better than none.

Well, everything seemed to work well on the 4500, but the engine was LOUD. My buddy said he's never heard a diesel so loud. (not exhaust, but engine noise) He's a pretty good judge of things even though he has never seen a 4500 either... so I plan to steer clear of this one.
There's some guys doing work behind my business with a Case 580L. I hope to see if the operator has time to show me the basics on how it operates. That would be extremely helpfull.

Randy88 said:

As they say, use your best judgement on what you think you need and can afford, ironplanet, can give both auction results and also machine inspections to compare one to the other, a very useful thing, same goes for auction results at ritchie brothers, or www.rbauction.com.

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You mentioned machine inspections on Ironplanet.... that alone has me seriously considering a purchase thru them. When you don't know alot...at least SOME sort of input from somebody else is always good. Reading some of the stuff reports is helping me to understand alot as well. Anybody know how reliable they are for that?

I have not run one of the Ford 4500s like what you are looking at. But I have run plenty of 545s, 555s, and 655s. They all were fairly loud. In particular, if my memory serves me correctly, the 545s stood out as very loud and they are based on the same tractor as the 4500. I am not there to hear for myself, so use your best judgement regardless of what I say, but the loud engine may be normal.

Maybe you could have Carl Sharpe look at it. He has experience with Ford box blade tractors, also known as skip loaders. I think he lives in So. Cal. too. Look him up (he has a thread on this site about skip loaders, in the general category, I think) on this site and send him a PM. Even if he can't make it out he might be helpful.

DGODGR said:

I have not run one of the Ford 4500s like what you are looking at. But I have run plenty of 545s, 555s, and 655s. They all were fairly loud. In particular, if my memory serves me correctly, the 545s stood out as very loud and they are based on the same tractor as the 4500. I am not there to hear for myself, so use your best judgement regardless of what I say, but the loud engine may be normal.

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Good to know.... I found a 4500 local that runs but has lots of issues..(enough that I'm not interested).. maybe I'll go check it out just to hear it run.

DGODGR said:

Maybe you could have Carl Sharpe look at it. He has experience with Ford box blade tractors, also known as skip loaders. I think he lives in So. Cal. too. Look him up (he has a thread on this site about skip loaders, in the general category, I think) on this site and send him a PM. Even if he can't make it out he might be helpful.

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I did just that, thank you.

On another note--Massey Fergson Model 300 loader/backhoe..... any reason to steer clear of such a thing? This one is close enough I can check it out myself fairly easily. Rebuilt diesel motor 200 hours ago, numerous new service items, etc. On the cheaper side of my budget.

motochris said:

Well, everything seemed to work well on the 4500, but the engine was LOUD.

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I use a Ford 4500 and the engine is louder than any of the other backhoes or tractors I have owned. There is an old thread on this forum that mentions how loud a 4500 is. It talks about "that famous Ford 4500 knock" or something to that affect... I'm glad I didn't let the noise keep me from purchasing the backhoe...it has been a great machine. It is old, but very strong and has never let me down.

FRISKY said:

I use a Ford 4500 and the engine is louder than any of the other backhoes or tractors I have owned. There is an old thread on this forum that mentions how loud a 4500 is. It talks about "that famous Ford 4500 knock" or something to that affect... I'm glad I didn't let the noise keep me from purchasing the backhoe...it has been a great machine. It is old, but very strong and has never let me down.

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Thanks Frisky! Maybe I can use my ignorance to bring the price down... "It's louder than any tractor I've heard... scares me, how about THIS much?"

The MF tractor sold before I could get there... ah well.
The current plan is to keep looking for something like a Case 580D and see where I end up...