Design Flaws: What would you do better?

As a mechanic sometimes what you would think shouldn't be that hard to fix becomes a major PITA! When you finally get done you just want to go choke the $--t out of the guy that designed it like this. I've got a couple:

6-way blade dozers: what were they thinking when they desided to run the hyraulic lines for the tilt and angle cylinders through the frame that the lift cylinders pin to?? Its not too bad when its not freezing out...but come winter all that mud and dirt that gets in there freezes and its usually on the coldest windiest day that one of those lines blow. You spend more time thawing and digging dirt out than you do actually getting the line off, made up, and put back on. On some I've cut holes and reinforced around the hole so dirt will fall out and it makes it a little easier to clean.

John Deere dozers: Why do they make the blade frame to tractor frame pins so you have to knock them out to the inside? Its not too bad if the grease lines still work and haven't filled the PIT OF DOOM ^^ full of grease. If you decide to take them out the other way you have to undo the track frames, jack the tractor up. Then you're stuck with the "how do i wanna go about doing this" if the pins are seized up in the bosses.

I'm sure there's more that I could list if I thought about it but I'm just curious to see what all the other wrenches have to say

Run over and squash a Bobcat, any model Bobcat, with a Cat 785 haul truck...then start over from scratch. :Banghead

ATCOEQUIP said:

Run over and squash a Bobcat, any model Bobcat, with a Cat 785 haul truck...then start over from scratch. :Banghead

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I'm glad you said that because I was thinking it too.

I'm glad you said that because I was thinking it too.

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HAHAHA ATCO hit it on the head. I wanted to say that too but I didnt want to sound like I was complaining too much. I had to help my father reseal one of the spools on the control valve on a older 743. He's 62 years old and after spending a day on his knees and belly it was a little too much for him. Hell I'm 6'2" 230 lbs and for the hour it took me to get it back together it was almost too much for me.

i agree with you ATCO bobcat anything is always a pain to repair

Build D3 Cats so you can pull the starter without putting the machine up on twelve inch blocks and pulling the belly pan.

Design wheel loaders so I don't have to pull the cab to work on the transmission.

Do away with all the electronically controlled transmissions. They worked just fine without the digital crap and they don't need them to meet EPA regs.

The same goes for electronically controlled hydraulics.

I'll think of more as I read others and this old brain draws back just where and when I left chunks of skin.

Install, position, fit, orient, filters to where you can 1) put a drip cup/pan underneath it to control the mess, and 2) not drop the damn thing because you pencil headed design engineers located it in such a postion that even the Rubberband Man could not hold on to it and fumble it!

We lay blame on the wrong people in attacking the design engineer...... Here is a example.

Someone in marketing decides their skidsteer needs a redesign to applease the customer and maintain market share but they want additional horsepower in a smaller framed skidsteer. They decide the overall dementions and look of the unit then send the consept drawings to engineering with directions to design engine/powertrain/hyd system to fit inside.

When this happens you use every available inch of space to pack it all together resulting in a machine that cant be easily serviced or repaired.
This is the process as explained to me by engineers at Deere and New Holland.

motrack said:

We lay blame on the wrong people in attacking the design engineer...... Here is a example.

Someone in marketing decides their skidsteer needs a redesign to applease the customer and maintain market share but they want additional horsepower in a smaller framed skidsteer. They decide the overall dementions and look of the unit then send the consept drawings to engineering with directions to design engine/powertrain/hyd system to fit inside.

When this happens you use every available inch of space to pack it all together resulting in a machine that cant be easily serviced or repaired.
This is the process as explained to me by engineers at Deere and New Holland.

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I understand Mo, perfectly. Just sayin...it's a filter, a part that gets removed from the machine like...frequently. LoL

Don't even start on vehicles, most auto designers need to be shot. Then you can add computer controlled anything to the list, diesels used to start and run and stay running unless you either ran out of fuel or plugged the filters, now we spend longer trying to figure out why the computer shut down a perfectly good running engine and what went wrong with the computer because nothing is wrong with engine. Then work on computer controlled shifting and and anything electronic controlled for shifting and anything continuity sensative for wires, theres a real nighmare to repair or replace. On a case 850 dozer they could have easily put the front cover on the back so you could work on it without taking the transmission out and get good access from the back instead of between the torque and the transmission.

I'd third the bobcat thing, try the chaincase on those older skid steers where its in the middle instead of the outside so you can get at it easlily thats butt stupid in my opinion. I'm sure the list will get longer as I think back as well, and for the record all filters should be easy to get to and be screw on and simple for fuel or oil and not laying flat, upright so they don't dump everything all over the place when you take them off or have those stupid paper cartigages or worse those half metal half sediment bowl things that dump everything all over when you take them off, I'll pay the extra to discard the whole metal filter instead with less mess, and don't tuck the oil filter behind the exhaust manifold or turbo either, its hot back there and I always burn my fingers when we change them hot thats more of a truck thing but still. On a case dozer put the cross member a little further ahead or back so you don't have to remove the engine to change the oil pan. On deere dozers change the design so you don't have to dissassemble the enire machine to do tranny work, thats rediculous on the older 450 machines.

I'll throw a couple truck items out there. Wabco made an Air compressor that has the unloader valve built into the head requiring that you basically (for the cost) put a whole new head on it when the unloader starts to get a little sticky with carbon.($300) Bendix made one where you pull 3 bolts on the top and swap in new unloader valves in about 10 minutes for ($35) Someone made a design flaw and yet they get more $. And I hate that Jake Brake made there electric terminals just regular push on spades. So after they expand and contract a few hundred times they start to just slip off with each bump. Would eye terminals and bolts have been that expensive? But I do love computers haha

Well Muffler Bearing its funny you brought up Jake Brake and those push on spades. I talked to a Jake Brake Rep back in 82 griping about those and suggested the same thing. I was told no one ever complained to them about this problem.

They were going to send me some modified parts to try and that was the last I ever heard from them. I left the world of trucks about that time and never followed up.

- Any inboard brake drum

- Rear spark plugs on a Hemi Ram.

- oh ya, add me to the Bobcat valve bank removal PITA

how about a hoe that can be greased without having to move it?
remote fittings on all machines so you dont have to climb all over them.
a safe way to clean windows on large loaders.
interiors that don't rattle apart in a month.
gimme a little time and i will think of more.

The list is too long ...Ah engineers the product of higher learnin ...I've just learned to drink heavily it eases my violent tendecies

I think all engineers should be requare to have a least 5 yr of mechaican on equipment before they get there degrees

I just replaced the rear window latch in a CAT 312. What an over engineered cluster ****. One lever for the operator works 3 different catches and another lever.

Not only that, the front latch is an entirely different mechanism. There are two little levers on the sides of the window that are supposed to be tripped by by two plastic bumpers. Can't close the window without them. That part of the system has never worked. Have to work the levers with your fingers.

Deere has never had a great reputation for ease of working on either. My experience around deere crawlers has lead to much taking of the Lord's name in vain, busted knuckles, tools you can't get back without removing the belly pan, excessive consumption of adult beverages in my younger days and all of the other things associated with it. The stupidest thing I have ever seen is on deere 450 crawlers. Raise the cover on the hydraulic to add oil and the pivot is only a couple of inches behind the fill point. Only way to get oil in without spilling half of it is to fill with a hose and pump. Just like you have one with you all of the time. Change the starter? almost easier to pull the engine first.

motrack said:

We lay blame on the wrong people in attacking the design engineer...... Here is a example.

Someone in marketing decides their skidsteer needs a redesign to applease the customer and maintain market share but they want additional horsepower in a smaller framed skidsteer. They decide the overall dementions and look of the unit then send the consept drawings to engineering with directions to design engine/powertrain/hyd system to fit inside.

When this happens you use every available inch of space to pack it all together resulting in a machine that cant be easily serviced or repaired.
This is the process as explained to me by engineers at Deere and New Holland.

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It would be a good idea to let them designers and engineers be mechanic for 15 yrs before they get assigned to the drawing room.

The designers of all manufactured products go to every extreme to make a complicated product cheaper and easily assembled by unskilled labour. They give no consideration to the high cost of repairs and the highly skilled labour required to repair it.

My favourite was the startup bypass solenoid valve on the hyd pump on the old JD backhoes. You needed to have a hand that looked like it was deformed just to be able to reach in and touch it. Glad I finally found it, turned out the little o-ring on it was a lot cheaper than a new pump.