Gray Market Give Away

Does this export tag mean the machine is a grey/gray market dozer?

Don't know about Komatsu's but every Cat excavator built in Japan had a similar shaped and colored tag and none were grey market.

Isn't that the definition of grey market, something built overseas and imported?

StevenG said:

Isn't that the definition of grey market, something built overseas and imported?

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No. There are millions of things built overseas and imported across all countries. The term "Grey Market equipment" refers to a machine that was manufactured overseas but does not meet the standards of the country it is being sold in.

The US has a tremendous amount of regulations for heavy equipment sold in our country from emissions to safety. A grey market machine can be made in Japan destined for Central America where DEF after treatment or a ROPS on a excavator may not be required for example, however those items are required for legal sale here in the US.

The biggest issue with grey market equipment is parts and service support as some dealers may be able to cross reference and others refuse too. It's a flip of coin whether one buys a cheap piece of iron or a yellow yard ornament.

StevenG said:

Isn't that the definition of grey market, something built overseas and imported?

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No.
I'm talking about Cat machines here. John C can comment regarding Komatsu but I suspect it will be exactly the same situation.

Some versions of common machine models were built with the intention of being sold only in a specific limited geographical market. Often (but not always) this was the case for machines built for the internal Japanese market (aka ISJ) that were never intended officially to be sold outside Japan. In the case of ISJ machines the service documentation was only ever produced in Japanese. Logical really, as that was the only location they were intended to be sold.

If such a machine then subsequently finds its way into a market other than the one for which it was originally intended to be sold then it is considered grey market. It would have been imported into that market unofficially, in other words not through any channels related to the equipment manufacturer. It most likely does not exist in the manufacturer's online service & information systems, and no service documentation or manufacturer dealer support will be available for it.

To my knowledge Caterpillar ISJ machines have turned up in the US, Canada, Australia, and other parts of Asia. Most Cat dealers, at least officially, want nothing to do with them. This is despite the fact that in many cases "crossover" documentation exists relating the grey market machine to one that does exist on the system.

Regarding your CEMA sticker. I would expect to find a sticker like that on any machine that was officially exported from Japan. I've seen plenty of them, usually on brand-new machines. Like the ones below. Both of these stickers are on officially-exported brand-new Hitachi excavators shipped from Japan to the Caribbean just over a year ago.

Nige nailed it. It's hit or miss. In my area, my local Komatsu dealer would gladly support gray market CD110R-1 crawler dumps, but my Cat dealer would have nothing to do with a 307SSR, parts or service. If this is a machine you are considering purchasing, easiest thing for you to do is take the pics of that model and s/n to your local dealer parts and service guys and ask if they would support that machine, they should offer you a yes or no right there.

You will find that tag on nearly all machines built in Japan and exported to another country as a new machine.

Gray market just means a machine was manufactured in another country and initially sold there. It was then exported as a "used machine" into another country. They may be built to the same specs as the machine sold through a "Franchised Dealer" new machine in North America and they may not. Gray market Hitachi excavators as far as I know were not any different than machines meant for North America. Komatsu gray market excavators were the same except for the decals and the boom cylinder sizes. Cat machines had different cabs with different operator comfort options. Keep in mind this is for excavators. The wheel loaders and dozers may might be something else entirely.

Support for gray market machines is at the option and whim of the dealer networks. In my experience all the dealer parts departments will happily inform you if they can of can't obtain parts for a machine.

Dealer support is there for the machine. Not a grey market.

Colour me surprised, not..........
Good to have confirmation though.

Here's two photos taken back in November 2019 at the Deere dealership in Haverhill, New Hampshire, USA.
The CEMA sticker was temporarily taped to the door (red circle) of this new 50G.

https://shop.finaldriveparts.com/sh...n legal terms, a gray,this is the most common.

Nice piece of propaganda on that site. I think they probably make more money selling parts for gray market machines than domestic makes.

John C. said:

Nice piece of propaganda on that site. I think they probably make more money selling parts for gray market machines than domestic makes.

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Didn't really look at the site, just looking for definition.

John C. said:

Nice piece of propaganda on that site. I think they probably make more money selling parts for gray market machines than domestic makes.

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Probably true on the propaganda to sell parts but the blog does bring up a good point on safety.

A "grey market" machine may be the same machine as the US version but might not have some fine print safety item of a certain certification or documentation that is tied to the serial number. May be the same machine but the paperwork is not.

In the extremely litigious society we live in these United States of America a lawyer looking for a big payday against a fat general liability policy of a contractor will look for everything to make a case in order to win. If said contractor has a machine in operation that doesn't check ALL the regulation boxes then it's an opening for a big settlement.

That's a risk I am not willing to take as a small business owner - our insurance is high enough already.

CM1995 said:

Probably true on the propaganda to sell parts but the blog does bring up a good point on safety.

A "grey market" machine may be the same machine as the US version but might not have some fine print safety item of a certain certification or documentation that is tied to the serial number. May be the same machine but the paperwork is not.

In the extremely litigious society we live in these United States of America a lawyer looking for a big payday against a fat general liability policy of a contractor will look for everything to make a case in order to win. If said contractor has a machine in operation that doesn't check ALL the regulation boxes then it's an opening for a big settlement.

That's a risk I am not willing to take as a small business owner - our insurance is high enough already.

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Exactly. The main difference with gray machines and machines that were made for the North America market is gray machines aren't ANSI or EPA emission certified. And like you pointed out, there are lawyers out there just looking for an edge to rake in the cash.

A good example of a gray market excavator is one of those blue or purple minis with basically a single armed sun shade. It is not a ROPS and was never intended for sale in the US.

Any machine with a Cummins or Isuzu engine was EPA compliant. Excavators did not have any safety issues. ROPS were the only issue with dozers. Ag tractors were the big safety problem when the gray market was big. Back in the nineties a gray market excavator was a better value than a new one and that is why it became so big.

I am looking at the NUMEROUS Cat 906-908's getting sold at RB & Other auctions with 4-8 hours. Many with German Stickers, some even with German Cat dealer logos. Some Liberherr 508's & I found a dealer with new Case 321F's for just over $90,000. I have no way to tell if they are gray market or not.

Europe is in a recession in case you weren't aware. That's probably the reason.
Maybe they were on some sort of rental contract, or on the German dealer's rental fleet.?
I had a look at a few of them. All the ones I looked at with low hours were built January 2022 so now almost 2 years old.
They look genuine to me, but that's only MHO.

John C. said:

You will find that tag on nearly all machines built in Japan and exported to another country as a new machine.

Gray market just means a machine was manufactured in another country and initially sold there. It was then exported as a "used machine" into another country. They may be built to the same specs as the machine sold through a "Franchised Dealer" new machine in North America and they may not. Gray market Hitachi excavators as far as I know were not any different than machines meant for North America. Komatsu gray market excavators were the same except for the decals and the boom cylinder sizes. Cat machines had different cabs with different operator comfort options. Keep in mind this is for excavators. The wheel loaders and dozers may might be something else entirely.

Support for gray market machines is at the option and whim of the dealer networks. In my experience all the dealer parts departments will happily inform you if they can of can't obtain parts for a machine.

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I have a "Grey" market Hitachi ZX40U3. No idea how is ended up in AK, but at one point was owned by Nishio in Japan.

All the buttons, gauges, etc are Japanese, as well as all the labels.

I'd need to label maker them, I end up forgetting if I haven't used it in a while.

I haven't had trouble sourcing parts. Considering removing the canopy or maybe raising it. It's too low for me and constantly in my eyeline and distracting.