Purchased 555A Ford TLB

[Willie B]

A friend of mine has a Case 580K with foot swing. He also has two large Excavators. I use him when replacing road culverts. The guy that runs his Case is very rough on the controls. I wouldn't consider getting in the trench when he's within reach. I always thought he was just a bad operator. Maybe I'm being too hard on him. Maybe he's struggling with the swing controls because of design?? I'll relax my under breath condemnations of him next time.

My friend always runs the Excavators. They are Linkbelt machines. I have no reservations about being around him. I've rode across many, many trenches in his bucket.

A good operator will make it work. It might be necessary to slow down to gain a level of control if the machine design isn't what it should be.
I'll illustrate with the antique tractor pull my son hosts on each Columbus day weekend:
I set 800 lb blocks on a steel stone boat. There is a great surplus of "helpers".
A pipe cast into a concrete block weighing 800 lbs receives two pegs hanging from chains. Typically, we move two at a time. Put the pins in, get out of the way. Let the operator place the two 800 lb blocks on the boat, then move in to fine tune placement, and unhook. Each year we have a pre pull lecture: "Stay away from the blocks until they are within a few inches of being placed!"

The proximity of four pairs of hands throughout the 10 foot journey forces the operator to take five minutes to do what would take 10 seconds without "Help". A John Deere hoe could do it in two minutes.

 

[ovrszd]

Yes.
Like a mouse and an elephant difference.

My brother used to have an old JD510. Definitely an elephant.

 

[Grady]

Willie, My K doesn't have foot swing but my C and CK both do. Since I learned on the foot swing and 3 levers it is intuitive to me and I can still do it in my sleep but I don't have to fight the swing like you describe. It's really smooth and the pedals work easily. Maybe there is something different about the newer foot swing but I feel much safer working with people around in my foot swings than I do with the joy sticks that I have to think about. Maybe there is an issue with yours? I don't know. Maybe just a different design.

 

[ovrszd]

Grady, in regards to your comments above. My definition of an "operator" versus someone that can run a machine is that the movements become natural. I would have to draw a picture and think about it to tell you what each lever in my grader do. But I don't ever think about it when operating it. To me it's just as comfortable as using my hand. Same with a backhoe or any other type of equipment.

I think the various control setups come easier or harder to different operators. For example I've never understood why any operator would want to have the blade lift controls of a grader on opposite ends of the rack. I've also never understood why a backhoe operator would want more than two sticks.

 

[Willie B]

Of the era, John Deere had closed center hydraulics. Pressure was maintained reasonably constant by varying the output of the pump. All valves on the tractor had equal pressure at a given time. It was possible to curl, extend the dipper, raise the boom, and swing simultaneously. When one cylinder had moved as far as desired, no sudden change in the rate another moved happened.
Other manufacturers used open center systems. Pump volume is controlled by engine speed. When no control is used, all oil flows back to the reservoir. A six, or seven section valve is supplied from one end. actuate that valve fully, very little oil gets to other valve sections. Operate two at once, swing, and boom, then stop motion with the boom lift, swing accelerates at an alarming rate.
JD hoes didn't suffer from this. One can gain proficiency with a Case hoe, but two experts each on his choice of hoe, JD would move more earth, with more precision.

 

[Grady]

ovrszd, I guess it just that I learned on the old 3 sticks and foot swing so 2 sticks is a second language to me. My excavator only has 2 and I'm real glad but I had enough time on the old backhoes to play it like a musical instrument - not bragging, it was an old pos but it was all I had at the time. The three levers correspond directly with the three functions - boom, dipper, and bucket and they do exactly what they do. If you push the boom valve away from you, the boom moves away from you and if you pull the dipper lever towards you, the dipper moves toward you . etc. etc. etc. It seems a very logical set up. My hoe allows you to use all three levers at one time but things do slow down when they have to share the flow. It obviously wasn't the optimum set up but it did work. Willie is probably right about JD being able to move more dirt but the few times I ran one - it just wasn't pretty. ; )

 

[mitch504]

It's funny, but I have a Cat trackhoe with two joysticks, of course; a 580SK with 2 sticks; and a Ford 4500 with 4. I can't sit here now and tell you all of what is where on any of them, but I have no problem in the seat, (as long as I don't think about it too hard). I can also drive most any shift pattern in a truck just fine, but if I think about it all of a sudden, I won't know where I am.

 

[Willie B]

A piano VS a xylophone. The first "Instrument I owned was an old JD. It wasn't the first I operated, but it was the first I sat on many hours. These days i'm a Case owner. It does everything i ask, but I do wish the boom had more lift power, and it lifted higher.

 

[Grady]

Willie, You need a Hitachi EX160 for that extra boom power and higher lift - talk about moving some dirt - impressive power for a smaller mid size machine.

That's right mitch, just don't think about it too hard. I've tried to explain it by saying, "It knows how if I get out of the way" - same thing.

 

[mitch504]

Willie, You need a Hitachi EX160 for that extra boom power and higher lift - talk about moving some dirt - impressive power for a smaller mid size machine.

That's right mitch, just don't think about it too hard. I've tried to explain it by saying, "It knows how if I get out of the way" - same thing.

Exactly!!!

 

[oarwhat]

Make sure you lower the stabilizer before you open the rear window! We broke windows and bent the frame a few times.

 

[Willie B]

Willie, You need a Hitachi EX160 for that extra boom power and higher lift - talk about moving some dirt - impressive power for a smaller mid size machine.

That's right mitch, just don't think about it too hard. I've tried to explain it by saying, "It knows how if I get out of the way" - same thing.

Probably not in the budget.

 

[ovrszd]

ovrszd, I guess it just that I learned on the old 3 sticks and foot swing so 2 sticks is a second language to me. My excavator only has 2 and I'm real glad but I had enough time on the old backhoes to play it like a musical instrument - not bragging, it was an old pos but it was all I had at the time. The three levers correspond directly with the three functions - boom, dipper, and bucket and they do exactly what they do. If you push the boom valve away from you, the boom moves away from you and if you pull the dipper lever towards you, the dipper moves toward you . etc. etc. etc. It seems a very logical set up. My hoe allows you to use all three levers at one time but things do slow down when they have to share the flow. It obviously wasn't the optimum set up but it did work. Willie is probably right about JD being able to move more dirt but the few times I ran one - it just wasn't pretty. ; )

I totally understand and agree. I watched a Professional, and I mean Professional backhoe operator run a Case several years ago digging in a large sewer pipe for a commercial hog operation. The smoothest, most accurate operator I've ever watched. When he took a break I asked him about the Case controls. He said he is much more accurate with a stick for each function than joysticks. He said there was too much slop in them to suit him.

 

[ovrszd]

It's funny, but I have a Cat trackhoe with two joysticks, of course; a 580SK with 2 sticks; and a Ford 4500 with 4. I can't sit here now and tell you all of what is where on any of them, but I have no problem in the seat, (as long as I don't think about it too hard). I can also drive most any shift pattern in a truck just fine, but if I think about it all of a sudden, I won't know where I am.

I thought it was just my peanut brain that has those moments.

 

[ovrszd]

A piano VS a xylophone. The first "Instrument I owned was an old JD. It wasn't the first I operated, but it was the first I sat on many hours. These days i'm a Case owner. It does everything i ask, but I do wish the boom had more lift power, and it lifted higher.

If I haven't said this before in this thread, let me say it now. I didn't buy a Ford hoe because I thought they were superior in any way. I bought the first hoe that fit my needs and budget. I would have bought any brand. But I was steering away from 3 or 4 stick Case hoes because of my operator inadequacies.

 

[ovrszd]

Make sure you lower the stabilizer before you open the rear window! We broke windows and bent the frame a few times.

Thanks for the tip. That explains the condition of the window frame!!!!! At some point it's had the entrance door swung clear back and the stabilizer lifted as well.....

 

[Willie B]

Plenty of recent manufactured backhoes, and excavators have pilot controls, where electricity opens the valve, and sticks have rheostats. control is precise, and fast.

 

[cuttin edge]

Some excavators sense your control movements and adjust pressure to smooth out your movements.

 

[Grady]

Probably not in the budget.

Not if you want to stay married.

 

[Welder Dave]

Nothing wrong with the older Ford 555 hoes. Ford used to do a comparison in the 80's of all major brands digging the same trenches side by side and switching operators between the machines so know one would have an advantage. Ford was the most productive for several years which would explain why they were quite popular in the day.