** 960 problems

[bobmoret]

Hi all,
Can anyone help me with problems I have with my MF960 please. I can not get the steering to go into 4 wheel steer or crab, it continually beeps 4 times, which means there is a steering problem. I have attempted to fix the steering by manually adjusting at the hydraulic spool. I was successful in getting the steering right temporarily in 2 wheel drive, with no beeps, it has since got back to not tracking correctly & beeping 4 times. I have other problems with the 4 in 1 not closing until warmed up after 30 minutes use. I have no repair manual to assist me & live in an isolated area, seems I might have bought a lemon. If anyone can help it would be appreciated. Thanks Bob.

 

[Jamjamex]

Hi bob
We had an ** 965 which if memory serves is the same machine except yours will have manual rear handles and joystick front loader handle ?
What year build is it / hours of use?
We had the same troubles with steering.

 

[bobmoret]

** 960

Hi bob
We had an ** 965 which if memory serves is the same machine except yours will have manual rear handles and joystick front loader handle ?
What year build is it / hours of use?
We had the same troubles with steering.

Hi Jamjamex,
My machine is a 1996 model with 6800 hrs on it. As you correctly stated, my machine has the front end loader joystick & manual rear backhoe handles. Please advise me on what you did to solve your problem.

 

[Jamjamex]

Ok bob
First have a look on top of kingpins on both axles there will be a round domed cover held on with Allen bolts under these are potentiometers. If yours has grease point to stub /kingpins ( some do and some don't, do ask me why ** did this)
Sometimes if they are greased the grease mucks up the switch or you may find a broken wire as they flex at that point
If you can't see anything there then unfortunately you have to go deeper , yours may not be so complicated with wiring as it's manual handles, it all congregates back at the computer module which lives in the rear console on your left side facing rear,
I would look at the connections first, they are a nightmare! I can explain more as it can be solved, they were a good strong digger ruined by electrical nonsense ( as many are now)
Be lucky!
Jim

 

[bobmoret]

Mf960

Ok bob
First have a look on top of kingpins on both axles there will be a round domed cover held on with Allen bolts under these are potentiometers. If yours has grease point to stub /kingpins ( some do and some don't, do ask me why ** did this)
Sometimes if they are greased the grease mucks up the switch or you may find a broken wire as they flex at that point
If you can't see anything there then unfortunately you have to go deeper , yours may not be so complicated with wiring as it's manual handles, it all congregates back at the computer module which lives in the rear console on your left side facing rear,
I would look at the connections first, they are a nightmare! I can explain more as it can be solved, they were a good strong digger ruined by electrical nonsense ( as many are now)
Be lucky!
Jim

Hi Jim,
Thanks for that info, I will check it out as soon as I can get time & get back to you on what I find. Thanks for your help it is very much appreciated.
Bob

 

[Jamjamex]

No problem
One other thing to look for , I don't think your machine will have this but while you are in there check to see if the seat has a lockout switch on the seat turntable. This usually locks out hydraulic functions if the seat wasn't exactly facing forward or rearward, ours went faulty and caused difficulties . I just bypassed it and it cleared some niggles.
Let me know how you go .
Jim

 

[bobmoret]

** 960

No problem
One other thing to look for , I don't think your machine will have this but while you are in there check to see if the seat has a lockout switch on the seat turntable. This usually locks out hydraulic functions if the seat wasn't exactly facing forward or rearward, ours went faulty and caused difficulties . I just bypassed it and it cleared some niggles.
Let me know how you go .
Jim

Hi Jim,
Sorry I haven't got back to you earlier but I have been very busy on our property looking after cattle, slashing etc. I had a quick look at machine & didn't find any caps that can been removed with allan keys & their is no lockout switch on seat. As soon as I get time I will look at machine & get back to you. I appreciate your help.
Regards Bob.

 

[hookedondiesel]

I'm not too sure on your model type, and My JCB is also 4 wheel steer but it is "always' on.
There are some JCB's that have the options of 2 or 4 wheel steer etc....
I believe these are electronically controlled.
So, you may have a blown fuse or a defective relay for the activation of 4X4.
A shop "electrical diagram" would be helpful.
Just a thought.

 

[bobmoret]

** 960

I'm not too sure on your model type, and My JCB is also 4 wheel steer but it is "always' on.
There are some JCB's that have the options of 2 or 4 wheel steer etc....
I believe these are electronically controlled.
So, you may have a blown fuse or a defective relay for the activation of 4X4.
A shop "electrical diagram" would be helpful.
Just a thought.

G'day Hookedondiesel,
Thanks for your comment, this machine is a 96 model. I will check out fuses etc again. I have some electrical diagrams that I will post shortly. I am continually having problems with electrics especially with front bucket joy stick. Yesterday I was using the machine & continually had problems with the bucket not being able to crowd. I attempted to correct this manually on the spool to no avail as there was constant pressure there. I suspect a solenoid is sticking.I am using the machine where possible with whatever problems it has temporarily as any use is better than none. I will eventually pull the spool off & clean out when I have time & check solenoids, electrics also. I am either considering converting bucket controls to a manual setup, or selling the machine.
Regards Bob.

 

[Jamjamex]

Hey Bob
Sounds similar to problems we had, do you have an ** or terex dealer near to you ,
It seems like you have the usual potentiometer problems with the "readers" on axle pivots and your bucket arm
You would need the handheld code reader ** supplied to dealers to plug into the system to check the electrical side of hydraulic sensing, it only really works if your sensors(readers) are all working ,
we found them to be problematic on the axles for the reasons listed before due to grease etc.
Does your machine have cables in conduits clipped on to both front and rear axles which run from main body of the machine out to the wheel hub,
if it does then follow them out to the hub and they should fit under a two bolt square shaped metal cover(protector) remove this cover and ther should be a hydraulic brake line and a round domed cover Allen bolted to the top of axle kingpin
The conduit will run into this cover, under the cover is the reader for axle angle which sends signal to computer for the steering , check the obvious first broken wires etc,don't remove the reader from the axle unless you can scource the setting tool (mentioned above) as you'll destroy the axle settings. You need the ** gadget to set angles etc
For the moment if I were you I wouldn't dig into valve blocks etc most likely your problems are on reading/sensing side
In my experience (had mine for 12 years) the valve blocks/solenoids never gave any trouble,usually trouble came from electrical sensing
You know the saying with computers ....feed in rubbish ...get out rubbish!
Hope this helps
Ok Jim

 

[bobmoret]

Hey Bob
Sounds similar to problems we had, do you have an ** or terex dealer near to you ,
It seems like you have the usual potentiometer problems with the "readers" on axle pivots and your bucket arm
You would need the handheld code reader ** supplied to dealers to plug into the system to check the electrical side of hydraulic sensing, it only really works if your sensors(readers) are all working ,
we found them to be problematic on the axles for the reasons listed before due to grease etc.
Does your machine have cables in conduits clipped on to both front and rear axles which run from main body of the machine out to the wheel hub,
if it does then follow them out to the hub and they should fit under a two bolt square shaped metal cover(protector) remove this cover and ther should be a hydraulic brake line and a round domed cover Allen bolted to the top of axle kingpin
The conduit will run into this cover, under the cover is the reader for axle angle which sends signal to computer for the steering , check the obvious first broken wires etc,don't remove the reader from the axle unless you can scource the setting tool (mentioned above) as you'll destroy the axle settings. You need the ** gadget to set angles etc
For the moment if I were you I wouldn't dig into valve blocks etc most likely your problems are on reading/sensing side
In my experience (had mine for 12 years) the valve blocks/solenoids never gave any trouble,usually trouble came from electrical sensing
You know the saying with computers ....feed in rubbish ...get out rubbish!
Hope this helps
Ok Jim

G'day Jim,
Thanks for the info. I rang the dealers for ** in Sydney & they apparently can't find their code reader for that machine. The nearest dealer is 200km's away. I will continue to try & find someone with a code reader. My machine does have the electrical cables in conduit. I will have a better look at the hubs & check out the wiring & let you know what I find.
Regards Bob.

 

[Jamjamex]

Ok bob hopefully you can find something obvious with wiring,
As I said we did run ours for quite a few years, albeit without the electronics and I can explain how we did this if you get into difficulties with sensing system.
I saw you were considering converting front end to manual handle and this was how ours ended up as well ,
although it's not as easy to convert as first looks
When we eventually gave up with massey looking at the problems (about 4 years old ) we went the whole hog and took out all the control/ sensing system and converted to manual front and rear handles and fully hydraulic steering instead of the stupid system with electrics working the rear hydraulics to steer rear axle
Anyway I leave it with you ,as I say it can be sorted. Ours was a usefull machine after all the conversions were done
Best of luck Jim

 

[bobmoret]

MF960 problems

Ok bob hopefully you can find something obvious with wiring,
As I said we did run ours for quite a few years, albeit without the electronics and I can explain how we did this if you get into difficulties with sensing system.
I saw you were considering converting front end to manual handle and this was how ours ended up as well ,
although it's not as easy to convert as first looks
When we eventually gave up with massey looking at the problems (about 4 years old ) we went the whole hog and took out all the control/ sensing system and converted to manual front and rear handles and fully hydraulic steering instead of the stupid system with electrics working the rear hydraulics to steer rear axle
Anyway I leave it with you ,as I say it can be sorted. Ours was a usefull machine after all the conversions were done
Best of luck Jim

G'day Jim,
Thanks for the info again Jim. You definitely know your stuff, I just hope I can fathom through all this info & get the machine going properly. The bit about running the machine without the electronics sounds good. In the long run I too would like to eliminate the electronics & go manual, although I don't know whether I am as capable as you to do it. I will give it a go though.
As soon as I get the time I will check out the wiring etc, I am just going through a busy time at the moment.
Thanks for your patience Jim,
Regards, Bob.

 

[Jamjamex]

No problem Bob,
Happy to help , even our local dealer couldn't get to the bottom of some of the glitches it had and eventually they left a spare code reader with me so we could reset readers on the front arm and axles.
I would imagine you won't have too much wet weather in oz , so that's a blessing for one of these machines as we also found out they don't like water ( either falling on top of it or wading through it ! )
Just post up when you're ready and we can get you sorted
Ok
Regards jim

 

[bobmoret]

MF960 problems

No problem Bob,
Happy to help , even our local dealer couldn't get to the bottom of some of the glitches it had and eventually they left a spare code reader with me so we could reset readers on the front arm and axles.
I would imagine you won't have too much wet weather in oz , so that's a blessing for one of these machines as we also found out they don't like water ( either falling on top of it or wading through it ! )
Just post up when you're ready and we can get you sorted
Ok
Regards jim

G'day Jim,
You were lucky your Massey dealer was obliging with the code reader not like here. By the sounds of it we are lucky we don't get as much rain as you in Scotland, would have been a real problem.
I finally got round to checking wires on potentsionmeters on hubs, all are ok. Yesterday I was using the machine to dig some small dams in gulleys that were very steep & uneven surfaced. Due to the rear steer re-positioning itself not in sync with the front axle ( still in 2 wheel steer), it continually puts pressure on the hydraulic system, causing the motor to stall occasionally. This steer is a real problem.
So whats next Jim?
Regards Bob

 

[Jamjamex]

Hi again bob
Ok from the sounds of your description you have a faulty potentiometer in the steering system or the settings are out, I had a discussion with one of masseys line managers at one of the construction shows about axle kingpin wear as the machine ages .
Their response was the system would not be affected by this , having run one of these .... I disagree!
However if you can't get hold of a code reader for this system ,then I think you should bite the bullet and disable the electric activation side of it and make it fully hydraulic.
As briefly talked about your machine should work like this:
Front axle powered from hydraulic pump mounted on the front right hand side of the engine with orbital steering unit ( normal system)
Rear axle powered from main excavator hydraulic pump with steering being sensed by readers/computer and power to rear steer ram taken from spool block above and behind rear axle( hope this makes sense)
Because your machine has a fault somewhere in the sensing it's pulling down the engine by trying to answer the call for more power to steering ( to correct the axle steer angles, to keep them in sync either 4ws or crab and can be for 2ws occasionally)

The first thing to look for is the steering pump which should be as I said rhs of engine just below top of mainframe level
Near the radiator.
if yours is the same then it's simple enough to follow the feed line back to the orbital steering unit.then determine which hoses feed the front steer ram, what I did was to splice the rear ram in on this system direct from front pump doing away with the electrical control,the pump has to work a bit harder but it does work (all the time!!!)
Be prepared for skinned knuckles and a few swear words as you'll have to lift the floor plate in front of the driver seat and dig in there
If yours is the later machine then the supply pump is probably mounted on the rear of the gear box
Does yours have the front and rear axle drive system coming out of the drive pod low down on the gearbox left hand side sitting on the machine, or only the front drive coming out ?
If not then what we did should still work but you' ll have to tweek a few things

 

[bobmoret]

Hi again bob
Ok from the sounds of your description you have a faulty potentiometer in the steering system or the settings are out, I had a discussion with one of masseys line managers at one of the construction shows about axle kingpin wear as the machine ages .
Their response was the system would not be affected by this , having run one of these .... I disagree!
However if you can't get hold of a code reader for this system ,then I think you should bite the bullet and disable the electric activation side of it and make it fully hydraulic.
As briefly talked about your machine should work like this:
Front axle powered from hydraulic pump mounted on the front right hand side of the engine with orbital steering unit ( normal system)
Rear axle powered from main excavator hydraulic pump with steering being sensed by readers/computer and power to rear steer ram taken from spool block above and behind rear axle( hope this makes sense)
Because your machine has a fault somewhere in the sensing it's pulling down the engine by trying to answer the call for more power to steering ( to correct the axle steer angles, to keep them in sync either 4ws or crab and can be for 2ws occasionally)

The first thing to look for is the steering pump which should be as I said rhs of engine just below top of mainframe level
Near the radiator.
if yours is the same then it's simple enough to follow the feed line back to the orbital steering unit.then determine which hoses feed the front steer ram, what I did was to splice the rear ram in on this system direct from front pump doing away with the electrical control,the pump has to work a bit harder but it does work (all the time!!!)
Be prepared for skinned knuckles and a few swear words as you'll have to lift the floor plate in front of the driver seat and dig in there
If yours is the later machine then the supply pump is probably mounted on the rear of the gear box
Does yours have the front and rear axle drive system coming out of the drive pod low down on the gearbox left hand side sitting on the machine, or only the front drive coming out ?
If not then what we did should still work but you' ll have to tweek a few things

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the info, sounds a bit daunting. I will check it out & get back to you.
Regards Bob.

 

[Jamjamex]

Hi bob
Not really too bad ,once you understand where everything is in terms of supplying
oil etc to the right places.
A good machine ruined by electrics!
You'll get there!

 

[bobmoret]

Hi Jim,
Can I manually adjust the rear wheels so they are straight as I have been doing & simply disconnect power to the rear potentiometers & just have 2 wheel steer? I f this is possible that would do me as I can get by with only 2 wheel steer for the meantime.
Regards Bob.

 

[Jamjamex]

Hi again bob,
Yes you can do that if you don't need 4ws, if you have the wiring schematic or operator manual either would show you which relay you can pull out to disconnect, it may be ok with the steering switch set in 2ws but ours sometimes sent the back axle suddenly left or right when our system was still connected. So I'd pull the relay ....safer!
The rear axle may drift without electrical connection so you may need to correct it manually from time to time.
without the sensing the valve will let you correct steering .
Just keep a 10mm spanner in the cab!
Great if you can work with front steer only ....just has the turning circle of an oil tanker.....
See how you go
Regards Jim.