Case 580B shuttle pump...

[frechele]

Thanks for your helpful reply Phil,
I guess I'll tow the machine to shelter to drill that big hole under the tube screen to clean it again. I don't want to take the cover off again as that was a day long job, sliding the fuel tank forward & steering back.
I'm surprised it could be blocked again as I cleaned it well & spent a lot of time vacuuming the black paper pieces out a year ago.

 

[robint777]

shuttle pump bypass

Is it possible to mount an after market pump and supply hydraulic oil to the shuttle valve through the lines going to and from the filter/cooler assembly?

How does the shuttle pump supply and draw oil when working properly?

My thoughts were to use existing lines(above) if possible or rework the 1 inch spacer plate to accept some fittings.

Hoping to avoid future shuttle pump failures.

Present problem is in consistent power to move. One moment, pressure is ok and tractor moves decently then nothing , then back on again.

I was thinking that a torque converter or clutch problem would not show up as intermittent like that? So perhaps it is a oil supply problem. Meaning pump failure or suction inlet clogging?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

First time owner and trouble shooting.

Robin

 

[robint777]

580b

Forgot to mention, front two oil cavities were filled with creamy coloured oil 3 and 9 litres respectively, Back cavity filled with slightly dirty but normal appearance oil, approximately 20 litres.

Both dipsticks showed proper levels from top of reservoir

Thanks.

 

[Phil]

Robin,
I suppose it would be possible to supply the shuttle with an external pump. The difficult takes time, the impossible takes a little longer.

The shuttle pump 'draws' oil from the bottom of the torque tube, by way of a pick-up tube, that is bolted to the bottom of the adapter plate. The pump supplies oil to the cooler lines through a passageway in the adapter plate.

Intermittent operation as you describe might be clutch pedal adjustment (failing to completely return to it's 'engaged position' every time), or a sticky valve in the shuttle valve assembly. Does your dash pressure gauge show a drop in pressure when this problem occurs, and does it happen in both forward and reverse?

The capacities sound close enough. The rear compartment contains the transmission/ differential oil, and is filled with 80-90 EP GL-4 gear oil. The shuttle compartment(2 drain plugs) is separate and uses Case TCH fluid, the level of which must be rechecked after 10 minutes of operation, if changed. Phil

 

[robint777]

Thanks Phil

Unfortunately, the pressure gage was both damaged and disconnected when I purchased the unit.

I do have a test gage that I could test port B C and D. Would this shed some light on things effectively?

My first thoughts are to flush the cavities as well as possible by filling them with diesel and putting an air fitting on the drain plug and doing that numerous times.

Then I was thinking of refilling everything and begin testing.

Though, out of curiosity, if I did supply oil externally. Say a pickup/supply through the drain and pressure/outlet into the cooler lines would the valve be getting all the oil it needs or is there any source of oil going into the valve from below/internally?

Thanks again

Robin

 

[robint777]

Forgot to ask,

What pressure and volume would I need on an external pump if I continued down that direction?

Robin

 

[frechele]

intermittent loss of shuttle pressure

After a week of trying to get my shuttle 580b to move, I started to tow out of the field & going up a hill the pressure suddenly returned in forward & it is back to normal. For a week the transmission pressure would take several minutes to get into the green & quickly go to zero if I put it in forward or reverse. Now it loses some pressure in forward/reverse but moves strongly.
My tdh level is normal. I will drill the hole under the suction screen to check & clean that but am hesitant to take it far until I find what is causing this dramatic loss of pressure when I try to go ahead or back. Any ideas?

 

[frechele]

My transmission filter was changed recently when I had my pump out last year & cleaned the screen & bottom of the transmission case of gasket material. I took it out today to see if that made a difference but nothing changed until after the machine bounced around while being towed.

 

[Phil]

Could be something floating down in the bottom under the pump screen. Make sure your clutch pedal adjustment is correct, at 3.1" I believe, and that your pedal returns to it's stop, every time you take your foot off it. Phil

 

[frechele]

I was ready to drill the screen cleaning hole but while it was working well I drove down the hill & dug a ditch & moved earth around for an hour. It worked well but after a while started losing pressure on the gauge & would not move again.
I walked home. Today I started it & it moved right away for 5 minutes only, then pressure goes to 0 immediately when put in forward or reverse. Pressure is very slow to get back in the green, same as last week, walked home again.
?The control valve moves back 3.1". I'm wondering if the converter regulator valve is wacky? Does anyone know where this is accessible to check?

 

[Phil]

The clutch pressure regulator valve is located between the selector valve and the valve actuated by the clutch pedal. I don't think it can be removed easily with the control valve assembly in place. It sounds like you have an oil supply problem; as the oil gets warm it can leak easily by many places, compounding the problem. The pressure drops to 0 when warm and in gear because the pump cannot supply enough volume. Check the distance with your foot off the clutch; you may have the dump valve leaking by a bit. The big problem with these shuttles was that sooner or later they have to come apart for an inspection. Did you check the oil cooler hoses for any obstruction? I would still question the condition of your pick-up tube screen. Phil

 

[frechele]

Thanks Phil
You were right.
I got it up the hill this morning & drilled the 7/8" hole below the screen & found more black paper bits that were clogging the screen.
I drilled the hole exactly under the screen & my pilot hole(about 3/8" went too far right through the screen). I repaired the screen with a metal seive I cut up & pushed through the hole.I rinsed it out with a gallon of diesel & vacuumed all I could, filled it with tdh, changed the filter near the rad & it works great now, pressure in middle of gauge & does not drop when put in gear. I put in a 3/4" pipe thread plug. It sticks out of the hole 3/4 inch at least. I will replace with a similar plug with an allen head key as this standard plug might get caught on something & break the new threads.
Thanks again for your good help!
I'm relieved it works so well & it was fairly easy to drill the hole in the soft cast.

 

[Phil]

That gives me relief, it was starting to bug me. Something you can do for me is supply me the measurement, not the one from the front,as supplied earlier, but from the side face of the torque tube. Put a straightedge on the outside of the torque tube(left or drivers side), measure to the right, over to the center of the plug hole. I'll take a guess at 2 1/4". Let me know, thanks, Phil

 

[frechele]

The hole center is exactly3.5" in front of left hole in housing in a straight line back from that hole as in earlier posted pix . Anyone who drills there should be careful as the screen is very close to the bottom of the housing & it is easy to drill too far through the screen.

 

[frechele]

The hole center is 2" from flat side of drivers side torque tube.

 

[Phil]

Thanks Frechele,
I'll see if I can get a fresh torque tube picture off my CK and post a picture will both measurements on it. Phil

 

[DBARH]

Very little forward movement

Hello DBAR here I am a new poster I have a 1968 580 CK with a leak in the bell housing area. If I pull the drain plug should there be fliuld in the bell housing?

 

[DBARH]

Movement limited

Hello DBAR here 1968 580CK fluid in the bell housing is my torque convertor seal leaking?
Also I need to purchase a manual?
Thanks DBAR

 

[DBARH]

1968 580 ck

Hello all DBAR here I need some guidence. I have fluid in the bell housing. does this mean there is a seal blown between the torque convertor and the pump?
Also I need a case shop manual.
Thanks DBAR

 

[ronspowertrain]

Well done frechele! Now we have 3 drain holes to help us keep the fluid clear of milky stuff and clean the screen as often as we like! I also believe that the mix of 50 percent TCH and 50 percent ATF fluid( DEXRON 3) is very effective, especially in the cold weather. I see many posts that a 580B has to warm up before you can move it. My 580B will move the second I start it now, even at -6 Celsius like the other day here in central Ontario. Just a squirt of ether and put her in forward and it will move. My machine has never operated that quick and that well. Good luck. Ron.