Under Greasing vs. Over Greasing a Trackhoe?

[Nuggethunting]

Hello All,

I noticed in the Maint. Manual that I purchased for our CAT 345BL that it talks about over-greasing and it can be bad. I never really thought you can over-grease and if you did you would just be wasting grease.

Can you technically over-grease and what can happen besides using more grease then what you need?

(2) We were using the CAT Desert Gold Grease, but changed over to the CAT Blue Multi Purpose Grease that is not so expensive. Any recommendations on grease besides CAT's blend(s)?

Thanks for all the help in advance,

Rob in AZ

 

[John C.]

The only way you overgrease is if its possible to push out a seal. Slewing bearings on excavators come to mind.

I was told by an oil company engineer years ago that ninety percent of the work that grease does is exclude water and debris. You put enough in to push out the water and dirt and you should be just right.

Everywhere I've been, pinned joints were always greased at least every eight hours. Slewing bearings were every couple of weeks and if working under water, every other day.

Don't have any recommendations on brand or type. Whatever was thick and sticky and cheap is what we used.

 

[willie59]

I've heard the "you can over grease it" myself, don't know to what degree there is truth to that, and I ain't gonna challenge the thinking. I'll only add my thoughts; when your talking pin/bushing joints, too much grease "might" be a problem...but not enough grease is for sure a problem. I think I'll lean toward too much grease.

 

[Vantage_TeS]

For a 345 the only thing you can overgrease is the table (slew ring). If you put too much the grease pools and then breaks down due to the shaking of the machine (think jello kinda action). Otherwise when you pump it past full it will just puke out the ends of the pins and drop gobs on everything. Not exactly pleasant but not hurting anything on the machine.

The only time you have to worry about overgreasing is when you start dealing with grease seals (forestry comes to mind) where the extra grease coming out the end will push the seal out and let all that nasty woodchip/bark/dirt mixture in the end of the pin.

Rule of thumb for greasing "just right" is listen carefully. You will heard a snap/pop sound as the grease pushes the last of the air out. Just a tad more after you hit that point and you should have grease poking out somewhere on the pin end. That's when you know you got it.

 

[Nuggethunting]

Hey All,

Thanks for the advice and tips. I believe we are doing everything right then. We do listen and watch for the grease to pop out the ends. The minute we hear the grease pop, we add just a tad more and stop. However, even though we do this, after about 4-6 hours of operation you will see some of the grease coming out. I guess this is normal since the grease is getting hot and breaking down. We normally grease about every 10 hours of operation, regardless if we work it hard or not.

When you mention the Slew Ring ... I believe I know what you're talking about, but just want to make sure it's the same spot. Please explain if you would.

Thanks,

Rob in AZ

 

[amunderdog]

All i know is i bought a case of that red grease.
I do not like it. Seems thin.
Takes for ever to get anything full then there is grease everywhere.
The old plain black grease was about two pumps on each fitting.
Anyway it will be awhile before i buy the red stuff again.

The machinist i trust; claims you can overgrease a bearing.

 

[JimBruce42]

Hey All,

Thanks for the advice and tips. I believe we are doing everything right then. We do listen and watch for the grease to pop out the ends. The minute we hear the grease pop, we add just a tad more and stop. However, even though we do this, after about 4-6 hours of operation you will see some of the grease coming out. I guess this is normal since the grease is getting hot and breaking down. We normally grease about every 10 hours of operation, regardless if we work it hard or not.

When you mention the Slew Ring ... I believe I know what you're talking about, but just want to make sure it's the same spot. Please explain if you would.

Thanks,

Rob in AZ

I know as soon as I say this someone's gonna prove that I'm wrong, cause I'm just lucky like that, but the slew ring's grease fittings are the three under the boom between the base of the boom cylinders on a 345, so if you're standing between the tracks looking at the machine with the cab to your right they should be right in front of you.

That's all assuming I know what I'm talking about for onceointhead:drinkup

 

[Nuggethunting]

Hey Jim,

That was my understanding also. There are three grease zirts there, one for the front and two for the sides. It was my understanding after reading the maint. manual for this unit you need to grease those zirts in four positions, 12, 3, 6 & 9 O'clock. This is what I have been doing, but maybe we are greasing them too much. Seems like a bunch of grease is rolling out ...

Comments?

Rob in AZ

 

[John C.]

You only put in a couple of pumps and then turn the house 30 to 60 degrees and put in another couple of pumps. Then rotate the house a couple of times in each direction and you are good to go.

Machinists worry about to much grease in high speed bearings. Think ball bearings in motors or pumps. Too much grease in those and you get lots of heat in a big hurry. Heavy equipment with pin and bushing joints are a very different animal.

 

[Iron Horse]

That's correct , high speed bearings on rotor shafts on flail mowers , mulchers etc. can fail if they are over greased . The rollers or balls slogging around in all that grease overheat and fail . As far as pins and universal joints etc. I like to see the old grease with it's contaminants pushed out a little .

 

[RonG]

The zerk fittings can be found in several different places,depending on the manufacturer has been my experience over the years.Some machines have three fittings,each 1/3 of the distance from the other around the circumference of the table.Those should be greased with the machine stationary.Others machines have a manifold in one place with three or more fittings plumbed into it for convenience.Again,machine should be stationary while greasing the table fittings at least.
I have encountered two other configurations that I can remember and one is the Caterpillar 200 series excavators.Their fitting(s) are actually in the cab on the lower right near the lever for the swing brake.There are two fittings,one for the table which you grease while rotating the house as many degrees as you choose for each grease application and the other fitting is for the pinion bearing I think.Technically this was probably a good idea but I never cared for the grease in my cab to contaminate everything it touched.
The last one in memory was some of the old Case excavators had an aerosol can of lubricant mounted in the cab that was plumbed to the table which required you to activate as you rotated the house to lubricate their hardware.I noticed that the can had the Case logo on it which suggests that it might have been a dealer item.Ron G

 

[RobVG]

This talk of greasing the slew ring reminds me of another grease point that gets neglected. The slew ring gear and pinion. There's no grease fitting, you have to remove the cover on the table between the boom cylinders.

My Hitachi dealer recommends Texclad 2- it must be good at over $20/tube. I put on nitrile glove and wipe the ring gear every 1/8 turn of the house.

What I've never understood is the manual says to check the depth of the grease at the bottom. What does that mean and why is it relative?

Rob

 

[John C.]

You want grease to keep being pulled into the pinion gear as it turns around the ring. The pinion tub is flat under the pinion gear but slants away a little and hold grease to basically fall into the gear way after the pinion passes by.

I like to use a thinner grease for the pinion just because it will flow back into the gear way. Many people use a thick grease but as it ages is tends to form up a cavity that just sits.

Over time you start to feel a rumble as the house turns through a certain spot but you have greased the ring gear religiously. I've found lots of dry pinions causing that rumble.

 

[tdozer]

our old timer machanic explained to me why not to over grease a slew ring when i was young. The EX450 i was running went into the shop for a 1000 hr. service. When i got there, he instantly knew i was over greasing it(oozing out everywhere). He said too much grease will stop the bearings from spinning, causing them to get flat spots. Makes sense to me:beatsme

 

[OilFieldHand]

Hello All,

I noticed in the Maint. Manual that I purchased for our CAT 345BL that it talks about over-greasing and it can be bad. I never really thought you can over-grease and if you did you would just be wasting grease.

Can you technically over-grease and what can happen besides using more grease then what you need?

(2) We were using the CAT Desert Gold Grease, but changed over to the CAT Blue Multi Purpose Grease that is not so expensive. Any recommendations on grease besides CAT's blend(s)?
Thanks for all the help in advance,

Rob in AZ

Yeah, anything but the CAT brand. Times are tough.

 

[Squizzy246B]

My old man was a good one for grease, he just loved it...everything you went near was covered in grease. He always said if grease is coming out dirt isn't getting in. But the old boy seemed to spend most of his life covered in the stuff Lol...drove my Mum nuts.

I do know you can over pack some wheel bearing with grease..to the point the bearings will fail. I've seen this first hand with over enthuisiastic greasing of trailer bearings....and yes...it was the old man.

 

[Cat4Life]

Haha, I would never recommend CAT grease to your wallets. This is not fact, but as long as you are greasing your machine daily then it doesn't really matter what "brand" of grease you use. Its simply sticky to not so sticky you could say, if it needs a special type of grease then it will say, but for everyday bucket pins and what not any grease will do. Slew ring zirqs only need about 5 shots a month, like it was previously stated "turned 60 degrees and 5 more shots" This is what the Cat mechanic said, and its done us good for now. The only way to really tell how many pumps to grease your machine is to do it. Say you put 30 in on day and its pouring out of certain pins, then do those pins at 20 instead and see if it comes out. Over-greasing doesn't work everyday pins but it can make your machine look pretty nasty if you use 2 tubes on it a day. I do believe a tube of grease is 400 shots of pistol grip style guns.

 

[Dozerboy]

Most place I've worked for use lube master grease. Its seems to work well.

 

[Errol]

The more grease the better I like it. Depends on your working conditions. Dry and dusty is the worst. If you are running a new machine with perfect seals, then ya, go less grease for sure.

For me with worn pins, I grease mega every 4 hrs. And I give the bucket pivot 10 shots every 2 hours. Slew ring gets lots too.

I can't believe TDOZER, that over greasing the slew ring would stop the ball bearings from rotating. Can you imagine the pressures on the balls on the slew ring?. How could simple grease cause these loaded bearings to stop turning and get flat spots on them?

I think the most important thing on greasing is to use EP (extreme pressure) rated grease. Once a few years ago, I ran out of EP so I used some white lithium grease, and within a day, twisted and broke the main pin on the stick. I learned to always use EP.

 

[gasfield315c]

i always get the bucket and stick pins every day and the boom pins and all the rest of the fittings and turntable every other day...anything more is just grease falling on your windows, and just for the record i use the cheap red grease (just what the company buys us) seems to work pretty good though :my2c