Maxxforce Engines

[Mr. Wrench]

I hear alot of people say the Maxxforce engines are junk. I was wondering what the story is with them. Bad design, operator error, or both? People say they are terrible but they never seem to know what is bad about them. Maybe you truck guys can tell us what your experience is with them.

 

[terex herder]

Used truck dealer tried to sell me one. Said he sends them all to a shop in Arkansas for a delete. At that time he was claiming 20 in mostly farm service with zero problems. The dealer said he wouldn't sell one without the delete.

 

[Mr. Wrench]

I wonder what he was deleting? The EGR? I was thinking that engine was oil enough that it did not have a DOC, DPF, or SCR.

 

[Coaldust]

The Maxfarce 7,11 & 13 all have their own story. The main issue I had in fleet use was massive, incurable fuel dilution of the lube oil. They would dump ridiculous amounts of fuel during inactive regen.

International be like, “Oh’, 10% fuel dilution is totally normal”. Then, I be like, no it’s not. How about all the lead and tin in the spectrography? “Oh’, that’s normal, too.

I ditched those things as fast as I
could. Even donating them to a University for training purposes, so those trucks could never hurt anyone, ever again.

It’s been over a decade since doing business with International because of that. Fine. Hope you can stay relevant , selling low bidder state plow trucks. Because, nobody in the private sector is purchasing your crap.

 

[cfherrman]

I'm sure they can work for someone, but if you don't have any of them keep it that way, there also chassis problems too.

 

[Coaldust]

It’s a shame, because it’s common to run across clean, low mileage trucks for cheap, but they have those stupid engines. If there was some way to deal with that.

 

[cfherrman]

You don't want the chassis for any price

 

[mekanik]

I was given the job of diagnosing and repairing a Maxxfarce 10 with a bad miss-fire. Turned out to be a shorted injector coil which took down a bank of three injectors. To remove the valve cover first remove the trough at the bottom of the windshield the AM/FM antenna then the wiper transmission, remove the breather pipe from the valve cover, remove all seven electrical connectors from the valve cover gasket, then get a big cardboard box and empty out the cab remove both seats the trim at the bottom of the door frame roll the floor mat back and remove the access panel from the firewall. Now you can see the valve cover. Some engines have a coolant charge air interstage cooler mounted on the front of the valve cover. Removing that drain the coolant and fight with some air piping and coolant piping.
Remove the valve cover bolts and with a helper move the valve cover back into the cab, next remove the high pressure rail/engine brake, its heavy and requires a second person, next unplug the injectors from the valve cover gasket remove the $700 gasket and discard it. Now you have access to the injectors. check all twelve coil resistance and replace injectors as required. I also talk the customer into replacing the expensive injection pressure sensor and brake pressure sensors and brake solenoid when the cover is off.
I don't think you could replace an injector in eight hours.

 

[BC Placer gold]

I was given the job of diagnosing and repairing a Maxxfarce 10 with a bad miss-fire. Turned out to be a shorted injector coil which took down a bank of three injectors. To remove the valve cover first remove the trough at the bottom of the windshield the AM/FM antenna then the wiper transmission, remove the breather pipe from the valve cover, remove all seven electrical connectors from the valve cover gasket, then get a big cardboard box and empty out the cab remove both seats the trim at the bottom of the door frame roll the floor mat back and remove the access panel from the firewall. Now you can see the valve cover. Some engines have a coolant charge air interstage cooler mounted on the front of the valve cover. Removing that drain the coolant and fight with some air piping and coolant piping.
Remove the valve cover bolts and with a helper move the valve cover back into the cab, next remove the high pressure rail/engine brake, its heavy and requires a second person, next unplug the injectors from the valve cover gasket remove the $700 gasket and discard it. Now you have access to the injectors. check all twelve coil resistance and replace injectors as required. I also talk the customer into replacing the expensive injection pressure sensor and brake pressure sensors and brake solenoid when the cover is off.
I don't think you could replace an injector in eight hours.

Unbelievable! good story though to demonstrate manufacturing stupidity. Kind of makes me feel good about our old stuff where you open an engine cover and see.....an engine lol!

 

[Mr. Wrench]

The Maxfarce 7,11 & 13 all have their own story. The main issue I had in fleet use was massive, incurable fuel dilution of the lube oil. They would dump ridiculous amounts of fuel during inactive regen.

International be like, “Oh’, 10% fuel dilution is totally normal”. Then, I be like, no it’s not. How about all the lead and tin in the spectrography? “Oh’, that’s normal, too.

I ditched those things as fast as I
could. Even donating them to a University for training purposes, so those trucks could never hurt anyone, ever again.

It’s been over a decade since doing business with International because of that. Fine. Hope you can stay relevant , selling low bidder state plow trucks. Because, nobody in the private sector is purchasing your crap.

Was the fuel dilution because they where using the in cylinder injectors to spray fuel into the exhaust stream to get the DOC temperature up to regen?

 

[Mr. Wrench]

I was given the job of diagnosing and repairing a Maxxfarce 10 with a bad miss-fire. Turned out to be a shorted injector coil which took down a bank of three injectors. To remove the valve cover first remove the trough at the bottom of the windshield the AM/FM antenna then the wiper transmission, remove the breather pipe from the valve cover, remove all seven electrical connectors from the valve cover gasket, then get a big cardboard box and empty out the cab remove both seats the trim at the bottom of the door frame roll the floor mat back and remove the access panel from the firewall. Now you can see the valve cover. Some engines have a coolant charge air interstage cooler mounted on the front of the valve cover. Removing that drain the coolant and fight with some air piping and coolant piping.
Remove the valve cover bolts and with a helper move the valve cover back into the cab, next remove the high pressure rail/engine brake, its heavy and requires a second person, next unplug the injectors from the valve cover gasket remove the $700 gasket and discard it. Now you have access to the injectors. check all twelve coil resistance and replace injectors as required. I also talk the customer into replacing the expensive injection pressure sensor and brake pressure sensors and brake solenoid when the cover is off.
I don't think you could replace an injector in eight hours.

It sounds like the typical bad design by an engineer with no connection to the real world. It is too bad because you will see a nice truck for sale and then you see it has a Maxxforce so you just walk away.

 

[crane operator]

There's lots of small trucking companies that almost, or did go broke, with maxforce problems. Trade in the 3 year old truck for a new international, and be down for 6 of the first 9 months they owned it. With the thin margins in freight, there's not many ways back from that kind of a hole.

And every manufacturer has issues, but those engines it seemed like no one could keep them running.

 

[Acoals]

It sounds like the typical bad design by an engineer with no connection to the real world.

I don't know if it was so much that as engineers grasping at straws in the wind trying to meet emmisions mandates. Some of International's pre emmisions engines were legendary . . .

 

[Mr. Wrench]

I don't know if it was so much that as engineers grasping at straws in the wind trying to meet emmisions mandates. Some of International's pre emmisions engines were legendary . . .

Like the DT466.

 

[mekanik]

For 2010 emissions when all the other manufacturers had to add selective catalytic reduction or SCR or the DEF system Navistar said "We don't need no stinking DEF we can do it with EGR". In 2014 Navistar started building engines with the SCR system. Their customers paid dearly for that decision.

 

[Acoals]

Almost like Cat not needing EGR because they had ACERT in 2002 . . .

 

[Truck Shop]

Arrogance=Dan Ustian=cause.
*

 

[Coaldust]

Almost like Cat not needing EGR because they had ACERT in 2002 . . .

Well, they didn’t call it EGR. They called it “Clean Gas Induction” CGI- because they took it from downstream of the DPF with a ridiculous amount of stainless exhaust system parts. Lol

 

[Coaldust]

For 2010 emissions when all the other manufacturers had to add selective catalytic reduction or SCR or the DEF system Navistar said "We don't need no stinking DEF we can do it with EGR". In 2014 Navistar started building engines with the SCR system. Their customers paid dearly for that decision.

I searched YouTube trying to find their marketing videos from that time period.

They survived by the skin of their teeth and banked EPA credits and paid hefty fines until they could slap EGR on. What a mess.

 

[Mr. Wrench]

For 2010 emissions when all the other manufacturers had to add selective catalytic reduction or SCR or the DEF system Navistar said "We don't need no stinking DEF we can do it with EGR". In 2014 Navistar started building engines with the SCR system. Their customers paid dearly for that decision.

I don't like DEF, it is a pain, but if you hear of an engine manufacturer, specially bigger engines, saying "We don't need DEF to meet emissions" you know they are running a ton of EGR. EGR and DEF are the main ways to take care of NOx. Both can be problematic, not sure which is worse. I wonder if high rate of EGR is. Alot of engines use both. I like the idea of CAT's CGI. It seems like the EGR components would not plug up as quickly. Maybe it had other problems though.