Replacement hydraulic oil for dealer recommended

[Syleng1]

So on my 30 year old Hitachi EX120-2,
My parts dealer (local JD construction dealer) tells me to use Hy-Guard for my hydraulic oil. I forget now what the factory oil should be or was. Typically I top off with a better quality Tractor transmission oil like Napa or Mobil.

I am getting ready to re pack the cylinders and I was told by dealer that the Tractor transmission does not have enough “thickness” and is the reason the seals are leaking. I shut my mouth, smile and wave.
I know my cylinders leak because the darn seal / packings are shot. Too bad too because there is only just over 3500hrs on machine. (Previous owners were just plain stupid) anyhow. I was looking to buy a 55 gal of Hy-Guard and there is a delay in which the oil may cost more once it arrives. Does anyone know of a good replacement solution to Hy-Guard? In the 46-68 range? I’ve allways had good success with the JD oils but costly in an older leaking machine. Lol!
Thank you,
Syleng1

 

[Nige]

My parts dealer (local JD construction dealer) tells me to use Hy-Guard for my hydraulic oil. I forget now what the factory oil should be or was.

From the information I have what they are saying is almost a year out of date.
Ask them to locate Deere Bulletin 77533 dated 5th August 2022 for full details.

The Deere excavator hydraulic oil recommendation was EX46HN (formerly a Hitachi product) which was re-badged last year to "John Deere Hydraulic Oil 46", probably about the same time as the JD/Hitachi joint venture was ending. Despite being re-badged JD HYDO 46 is the same oil formulation as EX46HN.

I'm not saying this is what you should be using in your machine, just pointing out that what you were told regarding the recommended hydraulic oil was not correct. It may make a difference in your search for a replacement because EXH46HN/JD HYDO 46 are both zinc-free (aka ashless) products.

 

[Syleng1]

Excellent! Thank you Nige on the info and factual bulletin number. I will research all of the above and make a judgement call.
The other issues are has Hitachi/ JD changed to composite of the seals? This too plays into what oil to run.
Again- your info is much appreciated.
Syleng1

 

[Nige]

The other issues are has Hitachi/ JD changed to composite of the seals?

Sorry I have no idea. That would need input from the JD/Hitachi experts.

FWIW I would not have thought an ISO 68 hydraulic oil would work well in a climate such as yours. The only places I have ever seen such an oil in general use were in significantly hotter tropical climates.

 

[Syleng1]

Sorry I have no idea. That would need input from the JD/Hitachi experts.

FWIW I would not have thought an ISO 68 hydraulic oil would work well in a climate such as yours. The only places I have ever seen such an oil in general use were in significantly hotter tropical climates.

Yes. I am not a big fan of ISO 68. People use it in either hot environments or to fix a leak(s). Worn parts are worn parts. The hitachi pumps do not like the thicker oils. I think the ISO 46 is as thick as I will run. But again a bit more research before I refill. There are not any Hitachi dealers near by to even see if they have anyone old enough to even know the difference needed for the EX series. Lucky this is not a customer machine but my farm excavator. If it sits, other than having to dig a ditch for a dead animal… it can sit.
After 35 years of this stuff, sometimes I spin my wheels on my own equipment but customers I don’t second guess. It is also… “shoe makers kids are the last ones with shoes.” Lol!
Thank you again for your input.
Syleng1

 

[Delmer]

30 year old seals are going to fail, especially if it sits outside much. Napa or mobil oil did not contribute to the seal failure. Hygaurd is transmission hydraulic oil, interesting choice? I'd use a mobile heavy duty hydraulic oil before hygaurd.

The zinc free is a big deal in big Hitachis, up to you if you worry about that in something low hour, high years that won't run much, and you're not draining every line and cylinder when you change fluid, are you?

 

[Syleng1]

30 year old seals are going to fail, especially if it sits outside much. Napa or mobil oil did not contribute to the seal failure. Hygaurd is transmission hydraulic oil, interesting choice? I'd use a mobile heavy duty hydraulic oil before hygaurd.

The zinc free is a big deal in big Hitachis, up to you if you worry about that in something low hour, high years that won't run much, and you're not draining every line and cylinder when you change fluid, are you?

Funny- I don’t blame seal failure on fluid, I blame leakage on old seals and wear.
As for zinc free- not sure as I’ve never worried about zinc except in anything that has flat tappet camshafts… then as many parts per million as I can get. (Rotella T is my choice including in my classic cars 1960’s thru early 70’s)

Original post shows I’m resealing every piston and I’m even removing the boom to machine to line bore and weld up over the next few weeks. So if I end up with 5-10% of oil left in lines and parts it will be considered a lot.
Honestly- a straight ISO46 will be good as long as it is a ash free oil. I need to do more research on this. Hy-Guard is what is the hydraulic oil in my 450e dozier also. It would be nice to keep it all in the family the same oil on the shelf, but I’m sure the double the price is not needed. I just want to make sure I get a good additive package. Since hours will be low the chances of consumable wear items in the oil will be from sitting still not working hot 50hours per week. Month after month.

 

[Nige]

I’d put whatever you decide to use in the hydraulic system of the excavator in the tractor as well because the oil performance requirements will be higher than the dozer. What type of implement pump does the tractor hydraulic system have.?

All the major oil companies produce an ashless ISO 46 hydraulic oil these days.

 

[Syleng1]

I’d put whatever you decide to use in the hydraulic system of the excavator in the tractor as well because the oil performance requirements will be higher than the dozer. What type of implement pump does the tractor hydraulic system have.?

All the major oil companies produce an ashless ISO 46 hydraulic oil these days.

Gear rotator pump. That dozier I did a full over haul on. New pump and all. I serviced it for my client till it hit 3900 hours and then they sold it to me for my farm. Sweet little dozer. It was so good I rebuilt the whole thing before it came home. Like Tom Jones says… “she’s a lady”

 

[Nige]

The oil requirement for a gear pump in the implement system of the tractor will be way below what the excavator will require IMHO. My 2c, YMMV.

 

[excavator]

The EX series called for a 46 grade oil, Hy-Gaurd will work, it's just a bit thicker. And don't worry about zinc free in the older machines.

 

[terex herder]

Don't mix zinc and zinc free oils. While I don't recall the details, one has an acidic additive package, the other a basic additive package. The two packages don't get along.

 

[Zewnten]

I know there were a few companies that made an equivalent to hitachi's 46 oil, I think exxon? But after pricing out a drum it was actually cheaper to use OEM.

 

[James Sorochan]

Mobil makes a zinc free 46W hydraulic oil. ( Mobil DTE 10 Excel Series ). Specs are pretty good. I use it in my Deere 135RTS excavator.

 

[mg2361]

My 2c, don't use Hygard in the excavator.

 

[Syleng1]

My 2c, don't use Hygard in the excavator.

JD dealer recommended it but based on what? It is why I am now questioning it.
Honestly asking 100 mechanics what to use I’m sure to get 75 versions of oil; what to use and why. There are so many factors in figuring out the oil situation. If the machine was brand new the oil choice would be simple. (1 or 2 choices) but with a 30 year old machine, other than factory cylinder packings and formulations available now that were not even part of the mix 30 years ago…. It can all be very confusing to say the least. I’ve spoke to guys who run straight non detergent 30weight oil as hydraulic oil in everything.
Of course everything they own leaks like a sive. But what started first, the leaks or the oil that caused the leaks. I just know to bring a change of clothes when working on it.
Thanks for the input. I’m calling my oil distributor and see if they can get the factory oil or recommend an “upgrade” as I’m so sad paying JD prices when honestly they are now buying and reselling more and more globally but charging top prices.

 

[excavator]

I know there were a few companies that made an equivalent to hitachi's 46 oil, I think exxon? But after pricing out a drum it was actually cheaper to use OEM.

You are referring to Hitachi zinc free, correct? The EX120-2 uses plain old 46 which is available from most any distributor or NAPA ect.

 

[excavator]

Here's what the EX120-2 manual shows.

 

[mg2361]

JD dealer recommended it but based on what?

The EX120-2 is also Deere's 490E, and waaayyy back then, while the factory fill was as excavator pointed out, Deere would would tell you if you need oil, to use Hygard. The 490E operator's manual would most likely confirm that and that is why the dealer said Hygard. Hygard is, in my opinion, more like a universal tractor fluid. It was designed mostly for transmission use, but Deere had many machine's then that the transmission was also the hydraulic sump. So a universal fluid (Hygard) was used.

As far as that beauty 450E, Hygard is OK.

 

[James Sorochan]

I remember seeing the John Deere memo from a CSA saying to switch th 46W hydraulic oil from the Hygard THF. Lot’s of pumps were failing. We were running a JD 992E at the time.