D8 track Depreciation? How to account for it? Pricing?

[nicky 68a]

Thank you! Nice looking matching on your profile. Do you charge differently for jobs that deal with Rock and ripping vs, jobs that don’t?

Yes,each job is priced separately.
I’ll enclose some pics of my last D8H tractors that I sold back in 2018.
They were nice units and I got as much money for each one as you could find some old D8N’s for.
They are awesom machines built by a great company,but they are all 50 years old and a very severe final drive failure could be the end of them.
I should point out that they currently belong to a chap that still works them.He has over 20 of them,so spare parts will never be an issue

 

[nicky 68a]

D8H Cattle.
I think you’ll like these sir

 

[nicky 68a]

My current line up is a low houred D8T that I’ve had from almost new and a high houred old D9T.I also allways have a spare old hired in D9T as back up.It allowes me to fix them at my leisure rather than let people down.

 

[D8HCattle]

D8H Cattle.
I think you’ll like these sir

Definitely jealous! Beautiful machines. Can tell they were very well taking care off. You and a YouTuber “JayPay dirt” would get along. He runs old Cats and similar scrappers. I’m sure the chap who bought yours can say they were the best out of the 20 he owns. I really appreciate your advice and insight!

 

[nicky 68a]

Definitely jealous! Beautiful machines. Can tell they were very well taking care off. You and a YouTuber “JayPay dirt” would get along. He runs old Cats and similar scrappers. I’m sure the chap who bought yours can say they were the best out of the 20 he owns. I really appreciate your advice and insight!

Thankyou.
Yes,I follow J Paydirt and very much respect him.
I’m keen to see how he gets on with those 2 new D9H’s he’s bought.
As for advice,all you can do is read other people’s opinions,then form your own and do what you think is right for you.
One of the most profitable jobs I ever did was getting a 24 hour a day contract on a coal mine for one D8.
I put 5 old D8H’s on the job and kept one going 24/7.It gave me loads of time to maintain or repair the others and I made a good few coins.
I’m those days D8H’s were about £20k each and the five stood me at £100k.At the time,a new D8R would have been £380k and still only earning me a similar rate,so the old D8H’s were a sounder investment at the time

 

[John Shipp]

Best looking 68a's I've ever seen, I was surprised a while back when you said you'd moved them along. The newer looking machines though, makes business sense in so many ways. Is your friend TC still fixing the big iron up your way?
Great pictures, cheers.

 

[nicky 68a]

Best looking 68a's I've ever seen, I was surprised a while back when you said you'd moved them along. The newer looking machines though, makes business sense in so many ways. Is your friend TC still fixing the big iron up your way?
Great pictures, cheers.

Hi John.
Yes,selling the last 2 of the older D8H’s was a sad day,but a sensible day.I was a getting abit too old to be mauling about with them and TC was one of a few people that pointed that out to me.
Yes,the newer ones do give trouble abit,but almost zero compared to the older ones.My tool kit is rusty these days!
I still do business with TC and will Infact be ringing him next week about a matter.

 

[DMiller]

8s still have a place as a Heavy Use/User machine, for the individual trying to use one as a singular business are a bit of a stretch. Cost to maintain, repair parts acquisition capability, the costs to transport as are so large and heavy does tend to outweigh the end result paydays. Rails on a 6 or 750 Deere are roughly 2/3 the cost last just as long, weight is still high but NOT to a 8s level. Get into transport permits and another can of worms opens as does costs of maintenance of the tow machines unless have it hauled then have those costs rolled into hauling.
Local has a Antique Cable 8 he uses with a Cable pan still builds ponds (small Lakes) and Larger Small lakes (larger Ponds) where may be on a site for a month or two, pays reasonably but then has to pay to move the machines off the site when complete to then look for other bids. He has decided the 8 is getting too old to continue as has he.

 

[John C.]

Old iron is problematic for any high production operation. My issue is at what age is something considered old. I have done appraisals for trade values on hundreds of dozers and put together repair numbers for nearly all of them. Both models are old, both models will have similar issues with drive trains and ancillary systems. Oval track D8s have the issue with final drives. High drive 8Ns have the issue with undercarriage cost. You can make either model work for production but both are going to cost you in repairs and lost production.

Here is a hint on value. Both machines will be worth the cost of a new undercarriage less actual depreciation on the undercarriage as a whole. An oval track machine with a 50% undercarriage will be worth about 50% of that replacement cost. The high drive 8N will be worth more with the same 50% undercarriage only because it costs so much more to replace that undercarriage. Is one any better than the other? That is a question of experience. That's why Nicky 68's opinion carries so much weight here.

 

[nicky 68a]

I think you over value my opinion John and have perhaps had too much Christmas sherry!
In terms of pulling scraper boxes with either a D8N or D8H/K,I couldn’t say as I’ve never pulled a box with any hi drive tractor.My gut feeling is that my D8T would never pull a 463 in heavy going or a 435 in soft wet going as good as an old 68A or 22A or old 155 Komatsu.
However,I feel my D8R and D8T would rip rock as well as any 155 or D9G/H.
As for comparing a D8N to a D8K,well I don’t really know the answer.
If I recall,the D8N was around 275 hp?.The D8R was belting out 335 hp?

 

[D8HCattle]

Thank you all this is all great stuff. I really appreciate it. We got the D8 because we started to harvest large wood lots to turn/reclaim into pasture at our farm. Have the dozer, and the Fleco root rake that goes with the 46A’s. The jobs I’d want to pick up I think would be more land clearing type. Seems to more of that work than really anything else one would need a D8 for around my area. We got lots of work to do on our own property might just stick to that after considering the above discussion. The trucking hasn’t been terrible, most outfits will do 125/hr when I take the blade off. 175 if I leave it on with an escort. I’d probably only pick up 10+ acres jobs with in 2 hours or so of home. Was thinking $1000 per acre… seemed like easy math till I started thinking track life and the $ I have in the new UC. Bought it with a fairly used UC so I always new that expense was coming. I’ll balance the books by increasing the value of our own land, maybe see a profit by increasing the value of someone else’s land. Thank you again everyone, you guys have a lot my experience with this type of stuff.

 

[John C.]

How can you overvalue the opinion of a man who is spending his own money accomplishing something?

 

[Shimmy1]

I think you over value my opinion John and have perhaps had too much Christmas sherry!

A humble man is a great man. Thanks for being part of this community, Nicky. What John was trying to say is when guys like you, TC, and I'll put Scrub into this category, too, are talking, a man needs to shut up, listen, and learn. Nothing trumps experience. Nothing.

Thanks for taking the time to post here.

 

[Pitt4212]

Here in the UK,I’ve decided 25 years ago that it’s not cost effective to turn bushes and pins on any D8 or D9 in my operation.
However,I change out segments quite often in high abrasion conditions and am very happy with the extra life I get out of my bushings.

Hi I have a Cat D8R with 5400hrs. I need to replace the undercarriage for the first time and it looks like you have great knowledge. What would you recommend for a brand? Do you have pricing for a complete undercarriage and what's the average life out of the bottom that you're seeing? I was going to go with Cat bottom but after reading one of your posts that might not be the best route? Thanks!

 

[nicky 68a]

Hi I have a Cat D8R with 5400hrs. I need to replace the undercarriage for the first time and it looks like you have great knowledge. What would you recommend for a brand? Do you have pricing for a complete undercarriage and what's the average life out of the bottom that you're seeing? I was going to go with Cat bottom but after reading one of your posts that might not be the best route? Thanks!

It’s never a short answer sir…….
I’ve had various Cat undercarriages on my D8’s and they’re good.
But,they’re not that good.
It’s a million dollor question,but my experience is that a Cat undercarriage has consistently cost me more per hour than non oem manufacturers when you look at them very closely.
That’s my best answer I can give after 30 years of paying the bills on D8 undercarriages.
However,my own experience is much less with D9’s and I can’t give you a straight answer at this time.
As for your D8R (an awesom tractor by the way) you have many variables to consider,but unless you’re ripping hard rock (that should really be done with a D9 or D10 anyway) I’d recommend a non Cat undercarriage for you to achieve the most cost efficient and profitable solution.
I hope that helps.
P.s a pic of your D8R would be lovely

 

[nicky 68a]

I currently have a set of ITM chains and sprockets on a D8T.At 700 hours they had broke even with Cat on cost per hour(in other words,I could have afforded to throw them away after 700 hours).They are currently on 1750 hours and still in good shape,so they are currently less than half the hourly running cost than my Cat chains.I fully expect them to totally laugh in face of Cat in longevity aswell.
However,the Cat rollers and idlers on that D8 just keep on giving and giving at 3750 hours.I’ll be replacing them with ITR brand and they’ll have a tough act to follow.
As for D9’s, I have one D9T with perhaps 70% wear on them and I’ve had one Cat idler shear the shaft into,and one collapse the bearing two weeks ago.Not impressive.
Yet,I’ve another D9T hired in with a undercarriage that was shot when it arrived.I only drove than one myself and I’ve run it a futher 500 hours this year beyond what I thought was possible and it’s only just snapped a link the same day the other bloody D9 blew the idler!!
I caught the link in time and put it on the lowloader last week.

 

[DMiller]

Do not know if worthy
Company I am working for is using ITR with good results, cost is a little less than 2/3 cat for full UC
Rollers Idlers Segments Rails All Bolts and Shoes.

Have asked and service hours is close to same dirt pushing.

 

[nicky 68a]

Here are a few pics of that hired in D9 I squeezed every last bit out.
Please understand it’s just a tractor that’s passing through and was allready buggered when it came in.
I’ve been careful not to send the cannons out beyond their spec.The bogies were beyond help anyway and will be getting replaced next month.
I wouldn’t recommend running my own D8 or D9 this far.
It’s a Cat undercarriage and I really don’t believe I could have a taken a non Cat undercarriage as far down to destruction as this.
I suspect an ITM or Berco,and certainly DCF/DCR undercarriage would have snapped and collapsed way before.
Could be wrong though

 

[nicky 68a]

Do not know if worthy
Company I am working for is using ITR with good results, cost is a little less than 2/3 cat for full UC
Rollers Idlers Segments Rails All Bolts and Shoes.

Have asked and service hours is close to same dirt pushing.

A very worthy comment DMiller.
I have very good things to say about ITR tracks.I also have very good customer service from them too.
I also rate ITM undercarriage parts even more,but their importer went bust last year and are no longer currently available in the UK that I’m aware.
Cat have got complacent and very conceited over the pricing of their GET products.I’m not complaining about all their pricing for parts etc,as they are still a world leader in quality and value for money in my opinion,and still just about retain some very high quality staff at Finnings UK.
Going down hill though,as many main dealers are.
Times change.

 

[Pitt4212]

It’s never a short answer sir…….
I’ve had various Cat undercarriages on my D8’s and they’re good.
But,they’re not that good.
It’s a million dollor question,but my experience is that a Cat undercarriage has consistently cost me more per hour than non oem manufacturers when you look at them very closely.
That’s my best answer I can give after 30 years of paying the bills on D8 undercarriages.
However,my own experience is much less with D9’s and I can’t give you a straight answer at this time.
As for your D8R (an awesom tractor by the way) you have many variables to consider,but unless you’re ripping hard rock (that should really be done with a D9 or D10 anyway) I’d recommend a non Cat undercarriage for you to achieve the most cost efficient and profitable solution.
I hope that helps.
P.s a pic of your D8R would be lovely

I currently have a set of ITM chains and sprockets on a D8T.At 700 hours they had broke even with Cat on cost per hour(in other words,I could have afforded to throw them away after 700 hours).They are currently on 1750 hours and still in good shape,so they are currently less than half the hourly running cost than my Cat chains.I fully expect them to totally laugh in face of Cat in longevity aswell.
However,the Cat rollers and idlers on that D8 just keep on giving and giving at 3750 hours.I’ll be replacing them with ITR brand and they’ll have a tough act to follow.
As for D9’s, I have one D9T with perhaps 70% wear on them and I’ve had one Cat idler shear the shaft into,and one collapse the bearing two weeks ago.Not impressive.
Yet,I’ve another D9T hired in with a undercarriage that was shot when it arrived.I only drove than one myself and I’ve run it a futher 500 hours this year beyond what I thought was possible and it’s only just snapped a link the same day the other bloody D9 blew the idler!!
I caught the link in time and put it on the lowloader last week.

I'll get you a picture next week just looked through my phone and had none . How much was Cat bottom vs the ITM? I'm expecting to have to pay about $50k for the whole thing.