Zero tail swing vs normal tail swing

[ror76a]

I was wondering what people's oppinions are on the zero tail swing machines. Mostly in the 320/321 size. I know the manufactures claim that they will handel the same size bucket/load that the normal machine will. I can see advantages to not having the tail out there, and I think the visability would be better, but is it enough to justify the extra cost. I would have to think that working on them would be a nightmare, as we do all of our own maintance and 99% of our own repairs. Does the extra weight (321 weighs as much as a 322, with a similar capacity as a 320) make a noticable diffrence in soft conditons? I work in mostly rural areas, and have not had any situations were we could not do a job beacuse of the tail swing, so it would be more of a luxury than a nessasity. Seems like even if I am working in an open feild, where I need to work will be right next to the only tree in it.

 

[Mr HMK]

right equipment to right job?

Fitting the components which will serve desired performance (in its class) in a relatively small area is not easy.

Thats why manufacturers commonly use smaller components for short radius machines, but run them on high performance.

I believe this may decrease the commercial life of equipment. (i.m.h.o.)

Also servicebility is relatively hard.

On the other hand, while operating machine runs in a smaller are than classic long tail excavators. that may matter depending to the job and needs.

Is your site small, or will you work on narrow a street?

In my opinion its better to decide the type of tail through the place machine will work. Because short tail gives you nothing but pure safety.

If working area is not small/narrow/dangerous classic is always better.

 

[LowBoy]

I've moved several brand new 321C CR's recently, but haven't had the opportunity to do any work with one yet. I'm curious to try one, and see how they react when the stick is extended all the way out with a full bucket, compared to a normal counter-balanced machine...I'll play with one the next time I get to a jobsite when nobody's looking, and see if I can't get it to do a nose-dive.:cool2

I have in fact, used our 305C CR for a day's work with an oversized 3 foot ditching bucket, but that's a tough judgement call, because the bucket was too big for that mini-ex to start with. I had that little guy doing all kinds of rockin' & rollin' just to keep it interesting.

 

[tylermckee]

My thoughts are if you dont need it, dont buy it. They cram enough stuff in these machines as it is that it can be a pain to work on, but then going and stuffing it in an even smaller package.

If i was doing a lot of work in cities or tight places then i would definitly go for it. Just get the extra gaurding so when you swing the back end into that tree you forgot was there you dont cave in one of your side doors

 

[greywynd]

One thing I've noticed comparing specs, is that often the zero tail swing machines will have sider, and sometimes longer, tracks than their classic counterparts. As an example, my mini-ex is 39" wide, the zero-tail swing equivalent is usually 5' wide....that can mean the difference of even getting the machine in and out of the job for me.

Mark

 

[mikef87]

Depending on the design they can be a nightmare to work on. I was looking at a JCB and the starter was on the backside of the motor you need arms 6 feet long to get at the damn thing. But on a big komatsu it seemed pretty decent to work on.

 

[fireman050]

I've moved several brand new 321C CR's recently, but haven't had the opportunity to do any work with one yet. I'm curious to try one, and see how they react when the stick is extended all the way out with a full bucket, compared to a normal counter-balanced machine...I'll play with one the next time I get to a jobsite when nobody's looking, and see if I can't get it to do a nose-dive.:cool2

I have in fact, used our 305C CR for a day's work with an oversized 3 foot ditching bucket, but that's a tough judgement call, because the bucket was too big for that mini-ex to start with. I had that little guy doing all kinds of rockin' & rollin' just to keep it interesting.

do you have any pics of those 321C CR's

 

[fhdesign]

I have no experience on those two machines, but the zts machines I've run have been a little tippier, nothing that you can't get used to quickly, in tight conditions it's probably the way to go.
With the conditions you said you operate in I would go with a conventional tail swing, talk to a cat road mechanic about servicing/repairing.

 

[72V]

I've only been on a handful of zero tail swing or short radius excavators, mostly 115, 135, 235 Kobelcos, and a 120 Deere, not counting minis. The cabs tend to be more cramped due to the reasons explained above, and some regular service items, such as air filters, can be a real bearcat to get to. It is nice, though, not having to think about swinging into anything with the counterweight while working in tight quarters.

Would I plan on trying to run a zero tail swing hoe past 10,000 hours? My gut feeling tells me no.

 

[smalltime]

I ended up buying a Zero House Swing machine (Bobcat 430), but I do think it rocks a little more than a regular machine. I ran a John Deere 120 & it was very stable, but the 130 or 135 (whichever is the zero tail swing equivilant) rocked a little more. I have already done several jobs with my machine that I could not have done without it, but for hard digging, I would think a regular machine would be much better.

 

[Big Iron]

I have ran several, the largest being a 300 Komotsu, the smallest being an EC88 Volvo. I would rent one if i needed it and buy standard. They will NOT handle the same size bucket as their counterparts period anyone who tells you they will is blowing smoke!!!. They are a PIA to work on, as stated above they still have to stuff the same amount of wireing, hyd hoses, pumps, motors, ect into a much smaller space and it is crowded enough in a standard machince (I know this for a fact as I am removing the swing motor from my 320 as we speak, it is in the open and iI am still having to remove about 13 hyd hoses to get it done:Banghead !) They are very unstable over the sides for obvious reasons. They are great for working downtown and in tight spaces, that being said, i would rent one for that reason, but would buy a standard machine for daily use. Just my humble opinion . and we know that opinions are just like rearends everyone has one, this just happens to be mine!!:drinkup

 

[LowBoy]

I have ran several, the largest being a 300 Komotsu, the smallest being an EC88 Volvo. I would rent one if i needed it and buy standard. They will NOT handle the same size bucket as their counterparts period anyone who tells you they will is blowing smoke!!!. They are a PIA to work on, as stated above they still have to stuff the same amount of wireing, hyd hoses, pumps, motors, ect into a much smaller space and it is crowded enough in a standard machince (I know this for a fact as I am removing the swing motor from my 320 as we speak, it is in the open and iI am still having to remove about 13 hyd hoses to get it done:Banghead !) They are very unstable over the sides for obvious reasons. They are great for working downtown and in tight spaces, that being said, i would rent one for that reason, but would buy a standard machine for daily use. Just my humble opinion . and we know that opinions are just like rearends everyone has one, this just happens to be mine!!:drinkup

Thanks for answering my question about stability with these CR's.:drinkup

 

[sirdigalot]

perfect for city work

Hi new to posting replies but here goes.I work for a firm that mainly does work in the city and we have 8 zeros from 5 to 23 metric tons and all i can say is how perfect they are for our job sites.If you have lots of room their probably not for you, but when it comes time to trade in I think they will be more attractive for resale. Two things against zeros is width and weight in comparison to the J.Lo version .Service on our zeros is easier than on our conventional machines thanks to remote filters and as far as hose repair goes the upper structure comes to pieces like all machines for easier access .Only real problem I had when building mountain bike trails was lunch box storage when miles from truck but great around trees and very stable on ski slopes where trails were THX

 

[XL4300X]

Zeros do have there place like mentioned by others, it is perfect where room is an issue. The only knock I have on them is the lack of room in cab and storage but thats the sacrifice you take.

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF sirdigalot! :drinkup

 

[mike69440]

ZTR is next to impossible to repair woithout extensive disassembly

Servicebility is relatively hard. Repairs are a killer.

My Komatsu PC-75UU2E is douwn with a bad spool valve. Very nasty to service. I finally got the valve out.

 

[digger242j]

...and we know that opinions are just like rearends everyone has one, this just happens to be mine!!

But the question is, does yours stick out and bump into things?

 

[Copenhagen]

I am renting a John Deere 225 RTS for a job I have going in the mountains. The machine weighs 55,000 lbs and seems just as stable as a conventional swing machine. Even with a 40" bucket.

We are digging in a driveway through decomposed granite and I am having to bench it off as I go. The drive is only 11 feet wide. They wanted 10 feet but I couldnt get a machine that was big enough to do the work that was less than 10 feet wide.

I chose the RTS because I am working in a lot of trees and I knew that something would get smashed. Not to mention I wouldnt be able to spin around in the driveway.

This is the second time I have rented an RTS. The first was a little 135. It didnt seem tippy at all until I started dropping pipe into the ditch. That 36" concrete pipe is HEAVY! I had the loader put his bucket on the tracks to keep me stable.

 

[tylermckee]

I am renting a John Deere 225 RTS for a job I have going in the mountains. The machine weighs 55,000 lbs and seems just as stable as a conventional swing machine. Even with a 40" bucket.

That sounds like a pretty small bucket, any time running it with something bigger?

 

[Copenhagen]

That sounds like a pretty small bucket, any time running it with something bigger?

We are digging in both solid and decomposed granite. The 40" is even too wide to do a good job cutting through it. I have a rock bucket coming next week and will probably finish the rest of the work with it. Then switch back to the 40 to do a little fine grading.