Winch Cable Strength, longer is stronger?

[Ace 12N]

This doesn't look right to me, it's saying that the more winch I have paid out the stronger that it will be. That's got to be a typo right?

 

[Junkyard]

Wire rope capacity no, it's a finite strength. Pulling capacity yes. Think of the wraps as gears on the drum. Less rope is like a smaller pinion which supplies more torque and power. In an ideal situation we liked to do our hard pulling halfway onto the first wrap and into the second. Plenty of wraps to keep the wire rope on and tight but not too many so you didn't have the pulling power. Clear as mud?

Junkyard

 

[Delmer]

What he said.

Small spool, more force, less speed. Large full spool, less force, more speed.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .
It's just a simple matter of leverage . . . vey noticeable with a hand winch pulling a biggish boat onto a trailer.

Cheers.

 

[Planedriver]

One of the reasons boats have windlasses vs winches.

 

[Ace 12N]

I think it makes sense now. So you're saying that if I was to drive the vehicle forward the amount of wire rope out has nothing to do with its ability to move anything or break the line or anything like that. But if I was to reel the winch in I would be able to move more weight with the wraps closest to the drum. Thank you this makes more sense now. It still very surprising to me the huge difference in weights here.

 

[crane operator]

No- I don't think your quite understanding it yet. Imagine the motor turning the winch making one revolution. When the drum is almost empty of cable, one revolution of the motor will only take in 1' of cable (for example). When the drum is almost full of cable, that same 1 revolution of the motor, may pull in 4' of cable (or more depending on how many layers it takes to fill the drum). It's basically acting like changing rear ends in a truck from a 4.11 to a 2.55, or imagine changing tire size from a short tire to a taller tire. The amount of cable on the drum changes the gear ratio. The change in gear ratio enables the motor to be able to pull harder. Gears matter.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .
Or, to add to the confusion.
Assuming direct drive on a long heavy suck . . . as the drum fills the engine may lug, or if the engine can maintain the set RPM, (often little more than idle) the load speeds up as it gets closer to the tractor.
Cheers.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . .

One of the reasons boats have windlasses vs winches.

Okay I'll bite, what do you call a windlass? (Grins ag'in)

Cheers.

 

[Planedriver]

Yair . . . .


Okay I'll bite, what do you call a windlass? (Grins ag'in)

Cheers.

Simply put it's a winch that does not store the cable/rope/chain on a spool so you don't get the "winch effect" that the OP is asking about.. The "line" is fed into a dedicated storage locker.

This chain windlass video may help.

 

[ih100]

Scrub, if you remember the old landies used to be offered with a capstan winch in the recess in front of the rad, like an upright bollard, with a yellow engagement knob like the 4wd selector. It drove off the front of the crankshaft through a dog clutch, and you looped the rope round the drum twice and manually pulled it tight. Rover offered a smooth drum, Rubery Owen offered a similar one that was 8 sided. The Rover one gave smoother uptake of the rope, but the R-O version gave better grip but snatched a bit when you pulled the rope tight. I'll try to post a picture.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .
Gotcha fellas. I guessed as much.

Planedriver, you took my post out of context or I didn't explain myself properly . . . I was referring to the effort required to haul a biggish boat onto a trailer at launching ramp.

Basically I was being a smartass by pointing out different regional nomenclature for different things. To me, "windlass" is an alternative term for a conventional drum "winch" when used in the mining or marine context . . . the other devise I have always known as a "capstan" and is about the handiest piece of kit you can have. For some reason the concept seems to have fallen out of favour.

As mentioned by ih100 Landrover once offered them as a debogging winch and I had one with about two hundred yards of rope stowed on the bulbar, mine though was hydraulic drive. Do you have any knowledge of that ih100? . . . I thought it was a Landrover attachment?

There is also a nifty little gadget called the "Superwinch" run by a 35cc Honda engine, If I was still bush bashing I'd have one of those. With a few hundred feet of rope and a set of reeved up three to two's you'd get out of most situations.

Cheers.

 

[Planedriver]

Scrub Puller, No problem.... We have it about covered! Now maybe somebody will get a thread going on the proper way to rig aircraft control surfaces. (I got lotsa names for those pulleys, cables, turnbuckles etc.)

 

[ih100]

Hi Scrub. No, never seen a hydraulic capstan, but they did offer a Dowty hydraulic drum winch. I've heard of, but not seen, a hybrid winch that combined a capstan with a drum, the capstan pulled and the drum kept or tight. Also got it wrong in the last post, the R-O drum was smooth, the Rover was 9-sided. I didn't have too much faith in electric winches at one time, but there're some good units about now, and they're a damned sight easier to use than the older types for lighter applications, up to around 12,000lb line pull.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .
With apologies to the original poster for going off topic but I must say I still have no faith in and would not own another electric winch after some problems with floodwater.

There is no doubt they have improved and work well but for me a fixed winch has to be PTO or hydraulic. In fact I prefer to carry a Tirfor and the reeved three to twos, you can pull from any angle with engine dead or no . . . the Superwinch mentioned would be a concession to advancing age. (grins)

 

[ih100]

Trouble with the bloody Tirfor, my engine isn't what it was, either

 

[ol'stonebreaker]

IIRC, in the oil patch a capstan is called a cathead, which is a smooth drum turning slow that you take 2 or 3 wraps of rope around to haul in a load.
Mike

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . ,

IIRC, in the oil patch a capstan is called a cathead, which is a smooth drum turning slow that you take 2 or 3 wraps of rope around to haul in a load.

Gotcha ol'stonebreaker . . . I have heard that term too!

Cheers.