What are good Wheel Loader qualities for a muddy site

[ABruso]

Hi all, I am up in New England and own a compost site. It is not muddy with clay, but rather organic material. I have been using a track skid steer (2 yard bucket) for the last 2 years to move material and turn my piles. However I need to upgrade to something with a larger bucket. I'd like to be able to move 3 -5 yards at a time so I have been thinking about a wheel loader. My site is about a 2% grade and is compacted topsoil with compost mashed into it. It is dry in the summer and fall, but wet in winter and spring. In the wet seasons I can use the tracked skid steer to move what the wheel loader can't. However I'd like to get a wheel loader that has a good chance of working at my site. Imagine driving down hill to scoop into a pile of compost, the ground is wet under your front wheels and you are scooping 3-5 yards of moist compost (which is not as heavy as loam). I imagine that when you pick the scoop up and then you try to backup, alot of your weight is on the front wheels and they will make ruts as you backup.

Do you think a larger machine with its GP 3-5 yard bucket? or a smaller machine with a light material bucket? I was thinking the smaller machine option would cause more ruts because more of its weight with a full bucket would be on the front wheels. Other questions I have... Can I air down the tires to help float? Is it possible to get wider tires? Do the drive trains have options that I should look for (limited slip differential)? Any info is helpful. Thank you

-Andrew

 

[Mike Van]

If you stripped the topsoil & sold it, is there a good base under it? I'd think the tracks are bringing more organic out from the piles than tires would?

 

[fast_st]

Now I saw a loader for sale, I think its in CT, John Deere 644 with tires off of a big log skidder, R1 lug pattern and must be 4' wide. That might just do fine in the mud. I have also seen another compost operation where they worked top down with a big excavator, they kept the site pretty flat and the machine worked on the top of the huge long rows, turning them by casting them to one side and working down the rows.

 

[ABruso]

Now I saw a loader for sale, I think its in CT, John Deere 644 with tires off of a big log skidder, R1 lug pattern and must be 4' wide. That might just do fine in the mud. I have also seen another compost operation where they worked top down with a big excavator, they kept the site pretty flat and the machine worked on the top of the huge long rows, turning them by casting them to one side and working down the rows.

That would be a great machine. Is it still for sale?


I've checked out a couple lately...

1995 JD 544G - a little rusty, worked good, had a dif locking pedal next to brake, which seemed to transfer power to the rear wheels in addition to the fronts. Ritchie specs says it has 20k breakout force, it seemed like the bucket had power, but the arms, when jammed into a pile couldnt lift, i'm assuming thats normal because the arms seemed fine otherwise.

1988 WA 200-1 - Transmission was rough, rusty, not greased, center pin loose

WA 250-1 - Head gasket leak, center pin tight, ran good, radiator cooler had been spray painted when someone painted the frame.

 

[fast_st]

Hydraulics may be weak on the 544G, we have the 644E and you can stuff it into a pile, it'll spin tires in 1st and 2nd gear and will lift a 5yd bucket in the middle of the pile. We opted to narrow our search to JD and Cat as they are good at supporting older stuff. Case is getting tough. Yep, diff lock looks like a dimmer switch.

took a look, don't see the big tire loader

 

[ABruso]

Thanks for the info I'm going to check out a 1999 544 H tomorrow. Do you think that is more powerful than the G Series?
I'm also looking at a 2006 wa 200 - 5 and I tried that out yesterday and it seems good and powerful enough. Not sure how it does with the 4-yard bucket
I'm also starting to wonder about how stable a machine would be with a 4-yard bucket. The weight shouldn't be more than a regular bucket with dirt but my site is on a slight slope and there would be tight turns.

 

[Nige]

Rather than a wheel loader, would a larger track loader than the one you have now suit your needs better because of the underfoot conditions..?

 

[fast_st]

I'd have to rely on ritchiespec to be certain as to the total machine weight and hydraulic force.

 

[redneckracin]

https://www.deere.com/en_US/products/non_current/non_current.page


for the Deere specs.

 

[Ryan151]

if you must roll with a wheel loader then I would look at one with either locking or limited slip differentials. sounds like a wheel loader is going to be the best option for you practically speaking. a tracked loader cant really move material very far very fast. why not use that skid steer to improve your drainage on the site so your roads ect dont become so sloppy. or invest in some rock for the roads/ areas without compost

 

[ABruso]

Ok thank you for the responses, I am getting closer to figuring out what I need. I think a tracked loader would make sense, but it will be too slow. I am trying to reduce the time it takes to turn a pile which right now is 6 hours on a JD CT 332 with a 2 yd bucket.

Here is a question... In wet soil conditions, is it better to have a machine that weighs 25k lbs or 20k lbs assuming they are both on 20.5x25 tires.

Right now here are my most serious options...

Komatsu WA200-5 2006. 8700 hours Needs tires. Play in bucket pin, need replacing

Cat 928G 1999. 7000 hours

Cat 938F 1996. 12000 hours

JD 644E 1990. 21000 hours, good service record, some oil leaks, needs tires

JD 544G 1999. 9700 hours Play in coupler


Just going by each manufacturers specs, the 544G and the 928G seem like they are not as easy to roll over as the Komatsu. The 938F is a little bigger. The 644 has alot of hours and I am nervous for that to be my first loader. Any thoughts of common issues with any of these, or anything that would make a particular machine not great? I've heard these Komatsus have transmission failures since it was a new type of drive for them, I would guess that has already been taken care of since it has 8700 hours. Also, keep in mind I want to put a bucket on that can hold 4yds heaped eventually.

 

[Tags]

In my opinion, you will be more frustrated with a wheel loader spinning its tires and sliding around trying to get a bucketful of material than running the smaller track machine. I think it would do you good to rent a wheel loader for a week or for a month or so first and see if it will perform the way you want. I have a feeling the type of material you are talking about is going to be incredibly difficult to operate a wheel loader in. An older dozer or excavator may be better suited and faster as well.

 

[Delmer]

Have you considered buying or making a compost turning machine? I'd think it would be attractive for breaking up and aerating the material better as much as saving time. If you've ever seen compost made in small loose rows, compared to dumped with a big bucket, there's quite a difference.

Otherwise, I think a wheel loader will be fine. Get one with decent tread, that's reliable and I think you'll be surprised at how well it gets around. It's not like compost has to be turned at any exact time, and like you said, the track loader is there if you have to use it in the middle of the spring thaw.

 

[ABruso]

Alright, here it is, I got a Cat 928G from 1999. It was built with a front limited slip differential. It has more than enough power for compost, right now it has a 2.75yd bucket, but I think it can easily handle a 5 yd bucket. Cat dealer confirmed that it can handle that size bucket, and after scooping compost with the current bucket, I think it won't have a problem.

I turned a pile with it, and it was wet underneth the pile so I was driving on moist organic ground, and the wheels did not slip at all... so far so good. We will see how the winter does.

 

[bam1968]

If you are having trouble with traction throw a set of tire chains on the front axle. It makes a world of difference.

 

[Nige]

Are you sure the LSD is on the front axle..? They are more normally found either only on the rear or on both axles. If you post the S/No someone can figure out how it was originally built at the factory.

 

[fast_st]

Nice looking Cat there! I'm not sure if you have done some oil sampling yet but it'd be a good idea to send out a couple axle samples, a transmission, hydraulic and engine one, it'll be good to start a baseline as knowing what your oils are doing is pretty key. We picked up a 25,000 hour 644E and have started monitoring, we will be doing a full fluid change later this summer, takes just about 50 gallons.

 

[ABruso]

Yes the Limited Slip differential is on the front, I had my cat dealer look up the S/N. This is perfect for me since the front axle is closer to the compost pile when scooping where it is wetter. Serial number is 6XR01742

Nice looking Cat there! I'm not sure if you have done some oil sampling yet but it'd be a good idea to send out a couple axle samples, a transmission, hydraulic and engine one, it'll be good to start a baseline as knowing what your oils are doing is pretty key. We picked up a 25,000 hour 644E and have started monitoring, we will be doing a full fluid change later this summer, takes just about 50 gallons.

Yes I just picked up 4 oil sample kits and 1 coolant sampler. I'm going to do the 2 axles, transmission oil and engine oil. I did not get the fuel one.

The Cat has a transmission neutralizer on it, so pushing half way down on the brake pedal acts as a clutch to the transmission and all the way down acts as a brake. When we are moving a pile, we scoop, reverse, go forward and dump on new pile, reverse, go forward back to original pile and scoop... repeat. I am planning on switching from F to R (and R to F) when I have the pedal pushed halfway down, thus engaging the clutch. When I do this it avoids a very minor clunk from the transmission. Is that what I should be doing to preserve the transmission?

 

[Nige]

If the loader didn't have an Operation & Maintenance Manual in the pocket behind the seat it might pay you to get one. A genuine CD version is about $35, a paper one $45 from https://servicemanualpro.com/

That should detail the basic operational principles of the machine, but from experience with larger models what you are proposing to do sounds correct. Just make sure that the loader is actually stopped before letting go of the left pedal to engage the transmission in the opposite direction.

 

[ABruso]

If the loader didn't have an Operation & Maintenance Manual in the pocket behind the seat it might pay you to get one. A genuine CD version is about $35, a paper one $45 from https://servicemanualpro.com/

That should detail the basic operational principles of the machine, but from experience with larger models what you are proposing to do sounds correct. Just make sure that the loader is actually stopped before letting go of the left pedal to engage the transmission in the opposite direction.

Thanks for the link, yes I got the very thick Parts book, and the even thicker Service Manuel.

When I am reversing backwards, I can flip the switch into forward (even with my foot off the 'clutch' pedal) and it switches into driving forward without any noise. It is very smooth. It would seem the machine can handle that.... but your comment and my intuition say otherwise. Maybe I should start another thread... 'Proper way to transition from Forward to Reverse in a Wheel Loader'