Weirdest problem stalling out and with starting

[joeeye59]

This is very strange with my John Deere 310c Backhoe....

This is what it's doing... I went to start it one time and it acted like someone took out the batteries, so after I went through all the typical and general preliminaries I unscrewed the dash board to have a look, and as I was lifting it up and out, while I was bending the dash to take a look behind it at the wires it came back to life, started right up and ran fine.... then it did it again and has been doing this on and off, but now its gotten to the point where I need to fix whats wrong with it...

Some of what its doing is different, it will stall out dead on me while driving it, and every time I pull up the dash and bend it back it starts, sometimes the dash lights up and the solenoid clicks, sometimes its completely dead.... and sometimes it won't run good as if it wants to die out...

Now I know you figure it sounds like something gone bad behind/in the dash board, so I would wiggle the wires trying to diagnose each part, first the solenoid, then the key switch wires, so I wiggled this and that every so lightly trying to nail down what little movement would trigger for the backhoe to start up when it was dead, and I can't get any one thing showing me its the problem, so as I grab hold of the wire harness I have to move it around and the thing starts right up.... so I'm wondering has anybody ever come across the wiring in the harness having a broken lead? because I do have to bend the dash board back pretty good sometimes to get it to start, and since I'm shaking all the components under the dash not getting any response telling me where the problem is I'm stuck here to think its in the wiring?? I can sure use some help if someone seen this before, thanks, Joe

 

[soso]

you solved you self, broken wire in dash.
now you just gotta find it wiring diag would help
more info as well, do all the lighs go out as well?
regards
tom

 

[jughead]

i had the same problem with my 655d. the main feed wire to ignition switch was broken under the rubber insulation at the connection point. like to have never found it.

 

[Mapleleaftrucks]

I had the same probem with my 310c, would not do nothing one time the next time lights would work and nothing else would just die driving down the road turned out to be inside the key witch, put a new key switch in and have not had any more trouble.

 

[joeeye59]

I had the same probem with my 310c, would not do nothing one time the next time lights would work and nothing else would just die driving down the road turned out to be inside the key witch, put a new key switch in and have not had any more trouble.

I think your completely right about it being the key switch (I hope) its gets very dusty and dirty in the cab, plus on the key hole where that dust shield is that gets pushed aside with the key when inserting the key has been worn out a little where it don't close all the way when the key is removed.... so I would think dust most likely has gotten in there over time having worn it out.

Also I'll need to go over the hot wires while I'm in there.... I hope I don't have to look for the power being broken like jughead had to fix...

 

[davidd]

JoeI.
I would say it would not be down the wire so to speak unless it is at a point that flexs a lot. Most wire harnesses do not get flexed very much.
Connection points are where the trouble spots are. Mechanical connectors, swithces and the like.
Often flexing the bad one will scratch the wire clean and the trouble will clear for a few days. But it will return.
Let us know what ya find.

 

[joeeye59]

Thanks davidd...

This is where I'm at now, the problem is way too unpredictable to nail down one cause, so along the lines of what your saying davidd I just noticed when I stepped on the brake pedal the engine cut out, and of course this is an intermittent problem, can't seem to get any one condition that cuts out the engine, stalls it down, or won't crank over, everything is intermittent... sometimes its fine for the whole day, other days I can't do anything...

I released the emergency brake lever it cut out, but then I'm not sure if I was lightly touching the brake pedal.....

Another thing, I wanted to fix the brake lights and turn signals because I wanted to be able to drive it on the road, so I put in a new brake light switch because the old one was no good and things worked fine, I replaced a few bulbs and everything worked great for at least a month, then the injection pump went bad and had that rebuilt, it ran okay for a while and now I'm wondering if its the fuel injection pump cutting out some how, but I'm not sure how to tie this all together...

I'll read the wiring diagram and see if I can make any sense out of this, I hate to start replacing switches and other stuff with out knowing whats wrong.... and so far I haven't see any burnt/worn wire ends like you said davidd..... I'll go look at the FIPump

 

[oldseabee]

One thing I've run into on equipment is wire ties or clamps pulled too tight on the harness, over time the insulation on the wires is extruded from heat and constant pressure to the point that there is little insulation between the wires sometimes enough to cause a partial short or an actual contact

 

[joeeye59]

One thing I've run into on equipment is wire ties or clamps pulled too tight on the harness, over time the insulation on the wires is extruded from heat and constant pressure to the point that there is little insulation between the wires sometimes enough to cause a partial short or an actual contact

Oh yeah.... I also seen on my Ford car the salt from the snow goes through the carpet over the years, and Ford stopped taping their wire harness all the way with tape, and I never knew when Ford is making a wiring harness and comes to the end of the roll they do not splice the ends together with connectors, they heat fuse the ends together and continue running it through the process of putting the color covering on it, so its an actual void where they fuse the ends together and salt water gets in there and breaks the connection, and if you didn't know to look for that you would think the wire was fine because it looks normal... perhaps sometimes you can feel an obvious break....

Update: the solenoid is mounted way up into the far back corner in the dash thats hard to see and reach, so when I would grab hold of the multi-lead wire harness connected to it and shake it around testing for the problem, I should have done it one wire at a time, because out of the 4 or 5 wires there is one wire broken off at one of the screw terminals connector, it's come off the solenoid, so I'm fixing it now and hope this is it.... if this is it I find it odd because of the way when I step on the brake it dies out, as if it grounds out the system some how killing the power to the fuel injection solenoid (I'm guessing)

 

[joeeye59]

I had the same probem with my 310c, would not do nothing one time the next time lights would work and nothing else would just die driving down the road turned out to be inside the key witch, put a new key switch in and have not had any more trouble.

Hey Mapleleaftruck.... when you changed the key switch did you happen to wiggle it around to get it to cut out on you? having made the diagnoses that the switch was the problem.... or was it one of them things where the switch don't show its bad because of how its made? just wondering because I shake mine around and it seems fine.... so I was wondering how it went for you, thanks for the help...

 

[joeeye59]

If anybody cares to know what it was...

I found the problem: It was red wire 11B that can be found in the access panel out side the cab, its where you access the hydraulic valve for the loader.

The connection was poor where this thick gauge Red Wire 11B connects together, it comes into the access panel from down below where it picks up power off the battery some where, then goes into the firewall all by it self via the access panel, it goes through right below the multi-wire bulkhead connector, where it ends up under the Dash Board.

Now this is whats stumps me, I looked and don't know why this connector is so very different than the typical connectors used to keep running a wire(s). this connector has what looks like an aluminum sleeve inside what looks like a spark plug boot, and the mating end looks to be an aluminum rod as round as a pencil, also inside what looks like a spark plug boot. and there is a slot on the tip of the rod as if its for a press fit into the sleeve when connecting together..... now I'll guess this might be some sort of fusible link? I looked in the book and can't find anything about it.... so maybe its just the way a thick gauge wire is connected and continued, maybe???

When I was shaking the whole bulk of the wiring harness to find the problem cutting out I didn't really see this wire 11B coming through because its hiding below the bulkhead connector. the connection was oxidizing in spots, so it was hard to pull apart, then once I filed it clean it went together nice ans smooth, and the machine has been working great.... it had to be the problem because when I finally seen it and started to wiggle it at the firewall it was cutting in and out.

I'm sure a JD mechanic would have found this is two minutes...