Union Question

[Sled Puller]

You need to keep in mind though, that today's world isn't the same world it was a hundred years ago, or even 25 years ago, so to rely on what was the standard then, is not appropriate for the circumstances we face now.

....I agree...unless we are talking about U.S Constitution... but thats another forum!!LOL

Things always go to the extremes in this country, we started out as indentured servants, slaves,or victims of terrible safety standards, to the other end of the extreme with the Union power working over the companies so they can't make a dime...now its somehow in between. Will it go back to the bottom?

I would say yes it will. Just wait for amnesty to hit.

 

[CM1995]

....I agree...unless we are talking about U.S Constitution... but thats another forum!!LOL

Things always go to the extremes in this country, we started out as indentured servants, slaves,or victims of terrible safety standards, to the other end of the extreme with the Union power working over the companies so they can't make a dime...now its somehow in between. Will it go back to the bottom?

I would say yes it will. Just wait for amnesty to hit.

Sled Puller, now you are skirting the edge of politics, do you want to go that route and get this thread locked? Digger put out several good topics to discuss on this issue and I can guarantee you if politics are brought in, this thread will be shut down.

 

[Sled Puller]

Well, whether any of us like it or not, personnnel, Unions, construction money, ie fuel tax, and politics go hand in hand.

I'd say 90% of my paychecks have been from federally funded jobs the last 16 years.

If Steve doesn't want his forum to discuss these issues, he should remove the the personnel forum all together.

If we are going to have a true construction forum here, we need to be able to discuss these issues, in an informative manner, without flaming each other.

From what Ive read on here in the past, seems to be quite bit of Union bashing, but not the other way around.

 

[Bully]

Sorry about my post, just pointing out some historical struggles the average worker has overcome since labor movement has began and the basic rights the American worker has recieved through the years and up until the present day(today even). Didn't go out and try to whip up anyone with a broad blanket statement with no explaination of my view or resort to name calling, which would be the easy route, but none the less, childish. I'll keep it civil, and will respect anyones position as long as they can respect mine.


2004F550:

Use your best judgement when you get out in the field. If you work for a big outfit, they should be able to make sure everyone has a place and enough tools to go around. Everyone knows what their trade is expected to do. If you work for Mom and Pop Excavating, things are a little more loose, from breaktimes and length to job titles and employer/employee relations. Sometimes those are the best jobs, and you may get a little bit of say in how the job runs out as compared to working for a mega-company who hires you from the hall and could care less about who you are or if you even roll out of bed the next day, you are a number to them, you can be replaced. Likewise it can go the other way too, but not often. Take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[digger242j]

Well, whether any of us like it or not, personnnel, Unions, construction money, ie fuel tax, and politics go hand in hand.

I'd say 90% of my paychecks have been from federally funded jobs the last 16 years.

If Steve doesn't want his forum to discuss these issues, he should remove the the personnel forum all together.

If we are going to have a true construction forum here, we need to be able to discuss these issues, in an informative manner, without flaming each other. ...

I don't know whether you've read the revised Forum Rules or not, but the one that applies here is this:

No discussion of politics not directly related to the heavy equipment industry will be permitted. References to individuals, political beliefs, or parties, made using derogatory terms will not be permitted within these posts. Example: "Flaming lefty", "right wing zealot" or other similar type label.

I think that gives us plenty of latitude to discuss the sorts of issues you mention in your opening sentence.

I presume the "amnesty" you referred to earlier has to do with immigration policy. If we should come to that bridge, and it seems to be having an impact on the industry, we'll cross it then. For the moment, I agree with CM that it's outside of the latitude to discuss politics that the board now permits.

 

[qball]

well, i have brought up this forum in a class i taught at our training site. they seemed receptive to joining.
i have a union meeting tomorrow night and i will bring it up there. i know i am not the only equipment "geek" in the hall.

 

[Bully]

How'd the meeting go...any promising news? :beatsme

 

[qball]

How'd the meeting go...any promising news? :beatsme

doom and gloom.
i MIGHT work in mu trade this year.
might.

 

[Bully]

Same same. #8 on the list.

The Under 4 List.

Behind 265+ guys on the topcard list.

90+ on the C card list.

:throwup

 

[basspro]

Can you explain how the lists work. I have herd reference to them a bt, but don't know how one goes from one list to another. I also herd 2nd year apprentice goes out 1st? or does a journeyman go out with an apprentice?

 

[Turbo21835]

Can you explain how the lists work. I have herd reference to them a bt, but don't know how one goes from one list to another. I also herd 2nd year apprentice goes out 1st? or does a journeyman go out with an apprentice?

It may vary from local to local. Your place on the list is based on when you call in to add yourself on the out of work list. Here we have a journeyman list and an apprentice list. If I call, and there are 176 guys on the out of work like, im #177. In our local apprentices go out on jobs that they are qualified for. So when your starting out you may be on a pipeline job, watching dewatering pumps. Your job is to lube, and fuel. You may be sent to oil on a crane. You may be sent to run roller, water wagon, or haul truck. The more hours you have and machines you are qualified on, the higher up you go.

 

[Tommygun]

Im an operating engineer. right now im an oiler on a crane so im always on the ground in the mix with everyone else. My first priority is to signal and radio the load to the right place and rig. if i see someone who really needs a hand or asks i will help them out but my first priority is the load and equipment. The union way is a laborer will labor, a carpenter will work with wood and an iron worker will work with iron. Most operating engineers respect the boundries and wont take another mans work. I wish i could say the same for all people. I personally wont step in unless me and others see eye to eye and dont feel threatend by it. over stepping boundries can lead to labor disputes, strikes, or worse. Everybody signed up and trained for a trade so they should be the only ones who do it.

 

[racedaymechanic]

It may vary from local to local. Your place on the list is based on when you call in to add yourself on the out of work list. Here we have a journeyman list and an apprentice list. If I call, and there are 176 guys on the out of work like, im #177. In our local apprentices go out on jobs that they are qualified for. So when your starting out you may be on a pipeline job, watching dewatering pumps. Your job is to lube, and fuel. You may be sent to oil on a crane. You may be sent to run roller, water wagon, or haul truck. The more hours you have and machines you are qualified on, the higher up you go.

I just stumbled on this forum but I spent 25 years in local 324 the union had no intention of signing me in the 70s as I was a Nobody, I was threatened many times to stay off equipment and each time I Would tell them to sell me a book, I even had a BA threaten to have my legs broken, Eventually they gave in, In that 25 years I never was given a job thru the hall, Every job I ever got was on my own, and the employer who hired me was often told to fire me by 324, I spent 20 years with one company I was always paid over scale as I am a very productive operator and a good leader, Im sure they are glad I am gone as I guess I was a thorn in the side of the local, I worked with alot of good guys thru the years and a few not so good

 

[RTSmith]

I just stumbled on this thread. I find it interesting, as I was brought up as a kid in a small business. Basicaslly, I was taught I had a "roofer's license". If it was under that business' roof, and needed doing, I had a license to handle it. In fact, I was raised with the phrase by my father "If you see something that needs doing, then do it." I heard that one many a time as a youngster with varying degrees of volume..! This concept of just "my job" is so new to me.

 

[oldtanker]

I've read this thread several times. The more I think about it the more angry I become. You are saying that an "operator" sit on his butt doing nothing while on a government contract???? On my tax dollar????? Guess I'm going to spend a lot of time emailing my elected Representatives demanding that all government contracts go only to non union contractors! I know I will never hire a union shop for anything. I'm not paying for some guy to sit around doing nothing cause "it ain't his job". That's about as bad as that police union yelling because the chief of police actually arrested someone. They are saying he is management and by contract isn't allow to make an arrest. According the the rip off artist....er union he should have called an officer to make the arrest! What a load of crap! That boils down to the union defrauding the tax payer! Come on, work a real job and set around doing nothing and it's grounds for dismissal for "theft of time". But by being a union member now it's OK???? How would you like it if your wife called a union plumber while you were setting in the cab of yer dozer doing nothing to fix something in your home. Couple of guys show up and they just set there cause it ain't his job to pull out some wood work and they are waiting on the union carpenter to show up.... but you gotta pay the time anyway????

Don't get me wrong, at one time the unions did great things in getting the workers fair wages and safer working conditions. But they have gone way overboard and convinced the members that it's their due to get these conditions. By what right is anyone paid for doing nothing?.....oh yea it's called welfare!

Convince me that I'm wrong about this.....and don't even start with that brother stuff....go and do some research....it's ain't brother it's COMRADE!

If it cost more to do something because it's union it isn't creating jobs for yer brother because less is getting done for more money. If you can do it for less you can have more work. And I have not seen anything to make me think that union workers do it better.

I've worked construction, was a OTR driver, mechanic, insurance adjuster and soldier (for 20 years...ARMOR!). I know what work is and know how to do it for a fair wage while being productive! Now I'm a broke down, has been, retired disabled vet who's farming at 55.

So tell me why I'm wrong!

Rick

 

[dirty4fun]

Oldtanker, I would say you hit it right on the head. It has gone way to far the other way.

I worked for a window manufacture for a few years. I had to join the carpenter's union as the windows had wood stop holding the glass. Then I wasn't supposed to remove the glass without someone from the glazer's union. I knew those guys and they didn't care as they really didn't want to do that anyway. It was the first time for me ever being on a big union job. There were some real craftsmen who worked, but there were so many that just used the system. They would break half an hour early, as they had to get down stairs to get there coffee or lunch. It was easy to see why it was way over the estimated cost. Since I was pretty much an independent no one bothered me and I worked usually 12 hours seven days a week to get my part of the job done. I was so glad to get out of there and not be a union member.

 

[digger242j]

I've read this thread several times.

Then you've probably noticed this post:

I will tell you right now if this turns into another pro/con union thread it will be closed. I've had enough of this crap from both sides. Any further posts in that direction will earn the author a vacation.

It doesn't say it in this thread, but because it's such a hot-button issue, and it's only peripheral to our mission here at HEF, we maintain a policy I've referred to as being "aggresively neutral" on the question of unions. In other words, as soon as any poster becomes too aggressive in speaking out for one side or the other, we're most likely to pull the plug.

Before anybody gets the vacation mentioned above, is a good time to do that.