union, non-union and self employed poll

[activeorpassive]

IBEW card-carrying member for ten years. Been working in management for Big Yellow for the past three years. Wouldn't stuff my ticket for any amount of money - it got me to where I am today. Best trained workforce one could ask for, in my opinion.

 

[JOE 535]

non-union self employed for 6 years

 

[swampdog]

I've belonged to various unions and also worked as a self employed person for many years. Based on my experiences, life usually is easier and more profitable when working in a union situation. Self employed people live with lots of uncertainty and constantly take risks. But I like the freedom that comes with working for one's self.

IMO, unions have their pros and cons. Without unions, some employers will always take advantage of their employees. To see how badly off workers were without group bargaining power, just look at the situation before unions became common more than one hundred years ago. Too many employers squeezed the workers as hard as they could.

On the other hand, unions sometimes become too powerful and destroy companies and workers' jobs. An example today might be the union that represents the Big Three. And unions often protect unscrupulous workers from facing the consequences of their laziness or incompetence. Too many workers take advantage of union contracts and the protection they give.

 

[ok dirt witcher]

Self-Employed

:usa:usa:usaSelf-Employed fixing to lay myself off cause I can't stand my boss! He's been on the edge about the economy. LOL:Bangheadointhead grossed $180g 1-08 to 06-08 grossed $15g 07-08 to 12-08 Spent $35g on repairs undercarriage and normal maintenance $38g travel trailer other debts and notes $4500 month. General liability, vehichle, home etc etc tax ins and don't even want to know $$$$$$$$$$$$$$fuel which I paid 4.90 in july heading home from TX to OK. worked kinda steady up until sept when everything along with fuel went to **** NOW I can't get enough work to pay interest. won't be able to pay on 2 Pkup paymets come jan or feb.one GMAC and the other Dodge (chrystler) then all I've been hearing is bailing out the same SOB's that will ruin my credit. When people are out of work they stop spending so hows 50 billion going to help them if we can't work??? While Working in TX I met A couple of guys from W Virginia who were dozer operators on a pipeline project running New D6T's they were Union drawing $33.00 an hr. ($70TT ins med) I have a 2005 850CII JD(185hp) drawing $85.00 Should of sold and went to work there. Sorry all bout getting on my soapbox. Went to typing next thing yea know I'm complaining LOL Merry X-MAS All. :usa:usa

 

[JTL]

Started out non-union for a rather large company in Idaho.
Quit them and bought a log skidder with a buddy.:Banghead
Joined the operators 6 years ago with the company Im with now. I worked for two other companies one year in California, when they couldnt seem to land a bid. Went home, helped my best friend build a logging road for the summer (what great medicine!):drinkup
Called my old supe from the first company, and have been back over two years now. Ive since transferd to Local 302 from 370, and have been made a foreman. If I want time off I would have to quit!
Im gonna stick Union with the company Im with as long as I can. Im Union for the simple fact that I refuse to make someone else rich, while killing myself. I have worked my ass off to get where Im at. I know alot of people at home in Idaho who work non-union and dont have spit to show for it. They give me a hard time for paying dues to work. I always ask them to compare check stubs and benifits, then they change their minds!
My best friend (who was an exemption to working for someone else to make them rich) is now out of buiseness and wants to come to come to work for us. I would hire him in a heart beat, but his wife is a little botherd about him hitting the road. So hes working for a logging outfit just barely getting by, but he loves it!
The only way I would ever work non-union again would be for myself, most likely logging!
Jason

 

[milling_drum]

I still can't believe the numbers on the poll.

In the deep south (where I am) operators unions exist for limited equipments/contracting. Mostly cranes and dirtmovers. Even with all the non union operators, and because of difference in how public/private contracts specify UNION ONLY are divided in the northern states, the union numbers should be much higher.

All The northern states pay prevailing wage to operators anyways so, being in or out of a union is moot.

 

[Speedpup]

I still can't believe the numbers on the poll.

In the deep south (where I am) operators unions exist for limited equipments/contracting. Mostly cranes and dirtmovers. Even with all the non union operators, and because of difference in how public/private contracts specify UNION ONLY are divided in the northern states, the union numbers should be much higher.

All The northern states pay prevailing wage to operators anyways so, being in or out of a union is moot.

many contractors blantantly cheat on wage laws on Long Island on many trades. Suffolk County DA is being tough so it may be decreasing a little. If you are going to have a law please enforce it so honest people don't have their hands tied.

 

[Turbo21835]

I still can't believe the numbers on the poll.

All The northern states pay prevailing wage to operators anyways so, being in or out of a union is moot.

PW only applies to government funded jobs, such as public works and roads. Most of the time site work on non union scale pays whatever deal you cut with the company, with the occasional exception. I worked on one home depot where I was paid prevailing wages. This was because the local township offered home depot a building pad as incentive for them to locate in their township. All the parking lot and underground site work was non pw.

 

[milling_drum]

You guys make a few good points. My wording was entirely to generalized to myself and the occupational version pertaining to me.

Down south the deal with alot of these "right to work" outfits results in operators constantly out to backstab, lie, steal, they make each others existance at work difficult. Five guys stand around while one works. (not everywhere but in many places I've seen and worked, thats how it is).

In order to stay away from racial issues its fair to say that all those companies in the south heavily rely on immigrant (legal or not) workers for operators. The biggest problem I see is that the states fail to make that "union only" specification in the contracts. Of course we won't mention the fact that the asphalt overlay contracts I'm reffering to really aren't that much different in dollars and cents less then they are up north. Therefore, the contractors in the south make a killing. There are offsetting operating cost's as far as materials but their profit margins are alot higher in part to not having to pay operators ANY type of prevailing wage.

Prevailing wage in Florida to operate an asphalt mill is around $9 an hour. In New York state its over $30 an hour. As much as the comparison in living costs/standards is there, it does not equal out to fair at all. Not to mention the working environment.

But please do not feel I'm trying to be harsh, PLENTY of the same unfair work practices I saw down south, happened up north as well. Pretty all the work an asphalt mill does is public contract work as a sub for a paving company.

As stated a few times earlier, I have no complaint against unions, I appreciate they guarantee a decent wage up north. The poll should still favor the numbers of union workers across the USA in my opinion.

 

[Turbo21835]

Milling drum, i have heard a lot of what you say about the south. I have an uncle working in La right now in a refinery. Hes a carpenter. He works 60+ hours a week, most of the locals work 38-40 hours a week. When he asks them why they dont work more, their response is we cant make it on less than 38-40, so as long as we get that, why would we work more?

Ive kind of seen that in the pac NW when i worked out there this spring. I was always going to fast, getting too much done, working too hard. Might be a reason why things ended up going the way they did with that company. Seeing things like this lead me to believe if you could get a partner in the south or northwest that is a local, and is known to be so. You could bring a crew of us yankees in to kick some ass and make some fast cash

 

[Speedpup]

You guys make a few good points. My wording was entirely to generalized to myself and the occupational version pertaining to me.

Down south the deal with alot of these "right to work" outfits results in operators constantly out to backstab, lie, steal, they make each others existance at work difficult. Five guys stand around while one works. (not everywhere but in many places I've seen and worked, thats how it is).

In order to stay away from racial issues its fair to say that all those companies in the south heavily rely on immigrant (legal or not) workers for operators. The biggest problem I see is that the states fail to make that "union only" specification in the contracts. Of course we won't mention the fact that the asphalt overlay contracts I'm reffering to really aren't that much different in dollars and cents less then they are up north. Therefore, the contractors in the south make a killing. There are offsetting operating cost's as far as materials but their profit margins are alot higher in part to not having to pay operators ANY type of prevailing wage.

Prevailing wage in Florida to operate an asphalt mill is around $9 an hour. In New York state its over $30 an hour. As much as the comparison in living costs/standards is there, it does not equal out to fair at all. Not to mention the working environment.

But please do not feel I'm trying to be harsh, PLENTY of the same unfair work practices I saw down south, happened up north as well. Pretty all the work an asphalt mill does is public contract work as a sub for a paving company.

As stated a few times earlier, I have no complaint against unions, I appreciate they guarantee a decent wage up north. The poll should still favor the numbers of union workers across the USA in my opinion.

I thought FL dumped PW few years back?

Not sure what you mean but why would any company have 5 guys standing around?

 

[dayexco]

i have ZERO problems with a group of people banding together to negotiate better wages/benefits...BUT, i think it a crock when i am told how i have to run my business. if i want to be non union, i should be able to. don't like my wages, benefits?, by all means....go on to greener pastures. that's America, isn't it? you should be able to strike all you want, whatever...but you should not be able to stop the lawful operations of my business.

 

[milling_drum]

That prevailing wage list is availible in ALL states. It's moreless a rough occupational guide for insurance claims or something. The actual rates these contractors down here pay are more around $12 to $15 an hour.

The way I was brought into asphalt milling in the 80's was that EVERYONE on the jobsite keeps working until EVERYTHING is done. End of the day theres about 2 hours work left to do on the equipment. On plenty of jobsites (both north and south) while I'm changing teeth and washing the machine down the rest of them stand around and talk ****.

Its a disease. Then those same people standing around will go to the supervisors and blow me in for anything they can think of to make me look bad because they cannot stand the fact someone isn't like them which is moreless them scared I might be seen as an asset to the company. In the end they always win by endless complaints about me to the chiefs who get sick of hearing about it. I've lasted for a few years at the better companys with old school milling supt's around but, the newbies can't stand it.

The union operators I've been around were generally a little bit more on the ball, they always had the same complaint though.

 

[milling_drum]

Milling drum, i have heard a lot of what you say about the south. I have an uncle working in La right now in a refinery. Hes a carpenter. He works 60+ hours a week, most of the locals work 38-40 hours a week. When he asks them why they dont work more, their response is we cant make it on less than 38-40, so as long as we get that, why would we work more?

Ive kind of seen that in the pac NW when i worked out there this spring. I was always going to fast, getting too much done, working too hard. Might be a reason why things ended up going the way they did with that company. Seeing things like this lead me to believe if you could get a partner in the south or northwest that is a local, and is known to be so. You could bring a crew of us yankees in to kick some ass and make some fast cash

Dude man, come on down here to FL, in a matter of two weeks I could show you how to operate a mill so we could break it off in EVERY other milling company down here. (theres lots of mills in FL.)

hahahahaha

 

[woodee955]

milling drum, who do you work for in Fla. if you don't mind me asking? I know what you mean about the work force, makes it hard on ya to earn a livin in alot of instances.

 

[milling_drum]

I'll list names, if I go back with time its much to time consuming to type. Oldest to recent.

Mill-it Corp/Delta Milling/East Coast Milling/Polings Milling/H&R Paving/AMS/Better Roads/Mid Atlantic Milling.

Out of that list, over the years I met one person who completely got along with me and we did record breaking square yard numbers for Hubbard Construction in Jacksonville 2002. Mill-it are outright the finest milling company down here but felt a Class A CDL operator was only worth $8 an hour. You would laugh for days if I told you stories about the others.

But getting back to the union issue, I am of the opinion that the south shoulf have a set prevailing wage like the north which is alot more than the hourly rates I stated above.

I also spent a few years working in Atlanta for a reputable company called The Miller Group.

Its possible if you are in asphalt in GA that we may have been on the same sites at some point.

 

[tylermckee]

non union here. and in my county PW is $44.XX/hr to be on any excavator 3 yards and under

 

[Haul-Pak]

Union here and I would prefer not to be. Cannot remember which union, Iam only reminded when they get a cut of my wage's.

Union's protect lazy people.

Non-Union is the best way to get rid of deadwood when it come's to lay off's etc. Instead the company layed off some of the best people we have because of seniority and left the good old boy's, They dont really work like the younger guy's because they think they dont have too! And they are right, They dont have to because the company have there hand's tied because of the Union.

What a load of cobbler's

If you turn up, On time, Do your Job you have no reason to be in a Union. Simple as that.

Gun me down if you like but ive spent time with the union and without.

 

[woodee955]

Milling drum, haven't been in the asphalt biz but i do know of Miller. From what I have seen they do a good job. A couple of parking lots they did down were i am and work on 75 and other highways around Atlanta. Have you heard of Turtle Milling, i think thats the name? They do a fair amount up this way. Sorry I'll quit the hi-jack.

 

[roddyo]

This is Spoken like the Gospel.

Union here and I would prefer not to be. Cannot remember which union, Iam only reminded when they get a cut of my wage's.

Union's protect lazy people.

Non-Union is the best way to get rid of deadwood when it come's to lay off's etc. Instead the company layed off some of the best people we have because of seniority and left the good old boy's, They dont really work like the younger guy's because they think they dont have too! And they are right, They dont have to because the company have there hand's tied because of the Union.

What a load of cobbler's

If you turn up, On time, Do your Job you have no reason to be in a Union. Simple as that.

Gun me down if you like but ive spent time with the union and without.

I agree 100%

This is why I quit working Union.