undercarriage problems on D6r

[ZX850]

Cat Wear Assurance

This program actually will warrant any premature failure of undercarriage, rollers, idlers, pads and chains for 36 months or 4000 hours. It is not discussed too often by dealers due to the difficulty in warranty administration that goes along with it and the various applications that void the warranty. Cat will pro-rate the usage on the tracks and you will be responsible for the cost....i.e. if you had 2000 hours on a set of chains and they were failing then you would be responsible for 50% of replacement cost...or at least that is how our dealership does it....yet they usually "policy" (or take care of) a portion of your obligation depending on your relationship with them and the amount of business you do with them...unfortunately it comes down to the almighty dollar.

I am sorry if I missed this in an earlier post but is this a system one undercarriage or standard SALT?

As far as the air ride seat...it is worth every penny. Increases the ride height of the seat and overall travel....if you are a tall person you can actually get the seat to the correct height without it riding like you are bolted to the mainframe.

My first thought when I read this thread was that your roller frame on one side is toeing out.....or in....which could possibly be linked to your equalizer bar. Had a machine that had uneven wear...actually wearing on the outside of the rollers and it was due to a failure in the equalizer bar that was causing the roller frame to toe out when going forward thus pushing the chain to the outside of the roller and wearing the inside of the sprocket and chain...on the other side it was pulling the chain so that the wear was on the inside of the roller and the outside of the chain...something you might look at.

As far as your transmission issues....very common for all Peoria built tractors of your era due to labor negotiations.....have been many failures of similar root cause in Ohio....dealership blamed it on strike time assembly issues.


Just a couple of thoughts and questions.

 

[Construct'O]

Surfer Joe, I didnt think they slid on the dead axle, but who am I to agrue. We replaced one several years ago on our old 6H and now that you mentioned it I remember the shimmed cap.

I would be checking more in the dead axile area.Try measureing the equlizer bar distance form center to left ,then center to right.

What size pads are you running.The xw machines have spacers for the finals to set out farther for the wider pads they use.

I'm putting IM(xw) 11' 6" dozer blade on my D6R XL(24" pads)so not going wider pads.If i tryed that i would have to have i think they said a 3' spacer for the dead axile and longer housing or sapcer,for the final.The blade now is 10' 6" blade.So i had to get the spacer that goes on the trunion balls for the blade to line up(offset) for the difference of the feet wider blade.

Wanted wider blade not,wider pads.

I wouldn't think so ,but check finally drive distances also,just maybe someone ,put the longer final drive hosuiong (spacer) for the xw in there by mistake.Unlikly ,but never know.

As big as your cat dealer is i would think they would have someone sharp enough to figure it out.Is the bill going to be on you or the dealer for the checking.My dealer has several field guys and they are young ,but they are pretty darn sharp.I have had good luck.

Keep posting and keep searching theres something wrong with the right side .I would narrow it down to looking there.The other is a track issue.Got two things going on here sounds like.

 

[d6peg]

Thanks for the info zx850 and welcome to the forum.

It is a SALT undercarriage.

I am going to try out that air ride seat when the dealer gets a machine on the lot that has one it.

I am happy about the tranny issue as of now, the dealer done an excellent job getting that resolved. Don't you think that some of the problems that equipment companys nowadays are having is due to trying to keep up with demand of the industry, or is it that some people they have working for them just dont give a crap anymore, or maybe both?

Well, I guess I better quit ranting or I will still my own thread.

 

[Construct'O]

Get your digital camera or any camera,out and get to taking pictures and documention what is being done.

Little late on picture for earlier repairs,but not from now on.I know it is the holidays,but when was the last time Cat rep(tech) was there to check the machine.What's taking so long:beatsme

Need more info as to what they are doing and telling you.Keep posting.Thanks:usa

 

[Construct'O]

Get some pictures up on here for us,this has got to be a new one,that we all need to find out about the problem and the fix!!!!!!!!!!

Good idea about getting at least your sale rep to see this.In fact my Cat serviceman as a laptop computer right in his truck and if i asked him he would gladly check out this post.

I might even try emailing him and asking what he thinks.Keep hamming them.:usa

 

[d6peg]

constructo,
I will do more checking on the dead axle and the equalizer bar.

I am running 20" pads.

I havent thought about the final drive on the right side being farther out from the machine than the left. Good idea.

I'm sure that the bill will be on them since this has been an ongoing issue.

When I talk to the rep tomorrow I will see if he still has the pics he took and maybe he will email them to me and if so I will place them here so everybody can see what I am talking about, and I have a dig. camera and will take a few of the pics about the segments wearing on the right side.

I would like for you to talk to your serviceman and see if he has ever heard of anything like this.

 

[Construct'O]

Sorry but just got email back from my man and it said he was on vacation,until Jan. 7,2008.So can't do you any good for now.I tried :beatsme :usa

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Budd! :drinkup

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums ZX850! :drinkup

 

[ZX850]

Thanks! This seems to be great resource for real life experience

 

[bolt thrower]

d6peg, D6 roller frames do not "slide" on the dead axles. They pivot only. The roller frames are secured by a shimmed cap at the dead axle, and the equalizer beam holds the front end in place. There is a lot of movement up and down, but not sideways. Remember, the roller frame pivot shaft compartment is filled with oil and sealed on both sides.

I'm sorry I forgot that Caterpillar builds their equalizer bars out of silly putty so they'll stretch when they need to. My parts books must be wrong to, cuz they sure don't show no shims under the pivot caps....... Oh well, I'm still learning!

 

[joedirt]

I'm sorry I forgot that Caterpillar builds their equalizer bars out of silly putty so they'll stretch when they need to. My parts books must be wrong to, cuz they sure don't show no shims under the pivot caps....... Oh well, I'm still learning!

What the heck... I knew we shouldn't have bought one of those "silly putty" tractors.:Banghead

 

[pushkid84]

What the heck... I knew we shouldn't have bought one of those "silly putty" tractors.:Banghead

it sound to me like this bolt thrower guy knows what he is talking about i thnk he might be right

 

[d6peg]

Pushkid,
Bolt Thrower might be correct and probably is. I am just a O/O and not a mechanic. But what I cant figure out, is on our 6h that we replaced the dead axle on it has a seal that is about 1/2" in diameter and if the dead axle slides in and out it would come out of the seal that is very hard to fit into the roller frame. I will do some more checking to see if the R series is maybe a little different.

 

[d6peg]

Constructo,
Talked to the dealer on Monday and my rep is also on vacation. I guess we will have to wait till next week to get all the measurements we need.


Done some more checking about the dead axle. According to my parts manual that was given to me when I bought the machine. The dead axle has a plate cap (it has a washer and not shims between the axle and plate) with 12 bolts that hold the roller frame to the dead axle, thus not allowing it to slide in or out on the dead axle. This can be found on page 404 (108-0175 pivot bar group), of the publication sebp2984 parts manual.:Banghead

 

[Construct'O]

Constructo,
Talked to the dealer on Monday and my rep is also on vacation. I guess we will have to wait till next week to get all the measurements we need.


Done some more checking about the dead axle. According to my parts manual that was given to me when I bought the machine. The dead axle has a plate cap (it has a washer and not shims between the axle and plate) with 12 bolts that hold the roller frame to the dead axle, thus not allowing it to slide in or out on the dead axle. This can be found on page 404 (108-0175 pivot bar group), of the publication sebp2984 parts manual.:Banghead

I checked my parts book and like your said it show a thrust washer that goes on before you put the plate on and bolt it down.So if for some reason they didn't install the thrust washer at the factory that could be the problem.

No washer then the roller frame would set closer to the sprocket,causing grinding on the sprocket.It probably wouldn't leak,because seal on the axile would still be on the seal surface.

I would make them check to see if everything is okay on the dead axile.

It wouldn't be that big a job.Just pull the dozer arm lose,take the trunion ball off remove the plate and get to the thrust washer,and see if it is there.At least that would be one thing to rule out.
Good luck.:usa

 

[d6peg]

Thanks Constructo and I will keep you posted. Now I just have to get a chance to turn the dozer loose for a day to do some checking. I keep thinking that I can get the dealer to check it out for me since this problem is one that showed up since the machine was new.

I was in some sand today and it really showed up bigtime.
If I can remember I will put the camera in the pickup tomorrow and try to get some pix posted.

 

[bolt thrower]

I checked my parts book and like your said it show a thrust washer that goes on before you put the plate on and bolt it down.So if for some reason they didn't install the thrust washer at the factory that could be the problem.

No washer then the roller frame would set closer to the sprocket,causing grinding on the sprocket.It probably wouldn't leak,because seal on the axile would still be on the seal surface.

I would make them check to see if everything is okay on the dead axile.

It wouldn't be that big a job.Just pull the dozer arm lose,take the trunion ball off remove the plate and get to the thrust washer,and see if it is there.At least that would be one thing to rule out.
Good luck.:usa

A missing thrust washer couldn't cause the roller frame to be out of alignment. The equalizer bar controls the location of the roller frames. It is a piece of steel (not silly putty) with precise fit pins connecting it to the main frame and roller frames. When the EQ bar is level, the roller frames are at a fixed distance from the center of the machine. When the EQ bar pivots either direction the roller frames follow it (!) Up and down and in and out. Forgive me if I led you to believe the roller frames slide in and out a large distance, I'd guess its only 1/4". The roller frames are a slave to the EQ bar. I thought was basic stuff!

 

[Construct'O]

A missing thrust washer couldn't cause the roller frame to be out of alignment. The equalizer bar controls the location of the roller frames. It is a piece of steel (not silly putty) with precise fit pins connecting it to the main frame and roller frames. When the EQ bar is level, the roller frames are at a fixed distance from the center of the machine. When the EQ bar pivots either direction the roller frames follow it (!) Up and down and in and out. Forgive me if I led you to believe the roller frames slide in and out a large distance, I'd guess its only 1/4". The roller frames are a slave to the EQ bar. I thought was basic stuff!

If that is the case .Why do they have a thrust washer??????:beatsme :usa

 

[Construct'O]

There more things that it could be.Unlikely,but you never know.The taper on the axile where the bushing run ,might be machined wrong,not letting the roller frame be aligned right.Wrong length bushing.

The hub where the sprockets bolts on might not be to spec(made right or for an xw machine).Wrong sprockets.The list could go on.Just things to check.Nothings written in stone.Just starting points.Your guess:drinkup is as good as mine just throwing it out there.:usa