Top 10 things to do to **** off your inspector

[Pecord Exc]

OK, I was "born" in the trenches I have been working for my fathers excavating company since i could pretty much walk from replacing undercarriages to "mass excavation jobs" (2 to 3000 cu yds). So, when it came time to go to college and plan my career i obviously chose civil engineering, dirt is in my blood and I love it. My job title is project manager so I oversee site development jobs that my company designs. Mostly NYSOT jobs and commercial developments. Most of the contractors refer to me as the inspector or field engineer, That being said I have GREAT relationships with many of the contactors that I work with on a repeat basis, and they dont dive me grief at all but some of these other guys that have been getting the jobs, a lot of low bidders with minimal experience I have been having issues. This post will hilight my top ten griefs with some of the contactors I have been dealing with.

1. Inability to install silt fence correctly and other erosion and sediment control measures.

Guys If you cant install silt fence correctly you arent ready to be out on your own.

2. Lack of supervision on the jobsite.

Owners, Supers arent on site enough. Leaving foreman who arent qualified to run the job. Many whom cannot speak english well enough for me to communicate effectivle with.

3. Submitting shop drawings for one thing then trying to use something else.

Comeon Im not stupid, we have designed things one way for a reason with specific materilas for a reason, you cant just put in whatever you want.

4. Extras for stupid things and getting in my face when i deny them.

Read the plans and the specs. We outline as much as we can to eliminate these things to the best of my ability. Do your homework I do mine!

5. Have the right equipment on the job, if you dont own it Plan ahead!

Rent it lease it something. And I am not talking about rock removal, that is an unforseen sometimes. But Why wouldnt a contractor have a pump at his disposal or demo saws, I know things break and stuff happens but when I come to a site and the contractor has guys in a trench 10' deep with no shoring, cut back or even a ladder I cant NOT say something!

6. Have a transit on site a string line doenst cut it in my book for footings or a foundation.!

7. Do not BEAT a structure with an excavator to make it level!! (Self expanitory)

8. DO NOT GET IN MY FACE to intimidate me. i can make you dig up every piece of pipe installed to check for bedding etc at my whim.

9. Communicate with me.

I have 20 to 30 jobs going on right now. All of my contactors have my 2-way number, cell phone number, email and office number. I tired to get a hold of you before I backfilled is not going to fly!

10. We are all here to do the best job possible, I will work with you if you work with me.

I have no problem with someone making money we are all trying to do that but our other common goal is to build something we can all be proud of we can do it if we work together!

Feel free to add comment etc. I just thought i could share some insight as to what I look for when i comeonto a job to make everyones life as easy as possible!

 

[dirt digger]

2 ways for an inspector to P*ss off an operator

1) Show up
2) Take pictures


no offense to you Pecord but whenever an inspector of any department comes out with a camera and starts taking pictures of me, the machines, or the work I instantly get defensive....the only time i don't is if it is a geo-tech engineer and he is taking pictures of the soil layers...even then i don't like it because i am always afraid he will take them back to the office and "have a revelation" then call me and tell me to dig the work back up because something is wrong with the dirt

 

[Pecord Exc]

2 ways for an inspector to P*ss off an operator

1) Show up
2) Take pictures


no offense to you Pecord but whenever an inspector of any department comes out with a camera and starts taking pictures of me, the machines, or the work I instantly get defensive....the only time i don't is if it is a geo-tech engineer and he is taking pictures of the soil layers...even then i don't like it because i am always afraid he will take them back to the office and "have a revelation" then call me and tell me to dig the work back up because something is wrong with the dirt

I don't get this 100%
Our job is to document everything to protect everyone. I wont take a picture of something "incriminating I will talk to you first becuse possibly the plans werent clear enough. I will discuss it with you, if you are nast about it if the contractor refuses to do something right then yes I will take pictures. Upon completion of my jobs I give the contactor a CD of the pictures I took for their records to. A lot of my jobs are in phases, will yo remember in five years a valve was installed evactly where it was or if it was before or after a tee? I am not an inspector that works against you I LOVE my job and I love working with guys like you. I understand that things in the field dont always work out as well as on paper so I will work with a guy. I cant speak for everyone but I can speak for myself. On my first meeting with the contractor I expalin to them my position and that I will work with them. Where they go from there dicates how I act on the rest of the Job. A lot of the pictures I have taken show up on my contractors websites and in thier brochures. lets face it your job is to do the work not neceesarily to document everything whereas my job is to make sure everything goes smoothly for both the contractor and my client.

 

[Orchard Ex]

Wow, I am very impressed with how powerful and knowledgeable you are! :notworthy
Although, not as impressed as you are...

I suggest that you try out #8 on a whim and see how far you really get.

 

[9Axle]

opcorngettin DEEP

 

[HeyUvaVT]

:guns:jerry:stirthepot

honestly tho...you sound nothing like any inspectors that i have ever come across....too bad none of them around here share your ideals :beatsme

 

[Lashlander]

Born in the trench?:cool2 We definetly have a difference of opinion of what a mass excavating job is. I'm with Orchard Ex on this one too. Your little whim would get you laughed off one of my jobs. Not a big fan of number 9 either. I'll try to give you a time when I'll be ready for inspection if I'm early I won't wait, If I'm late and you have to wait to bad, I'm not gonna chase you all over to get you to do your job. Matter a fact number nine is related to number 2. Seems you need to take your own advice. I've never had a problem with inspectors taking pictures. Take all you want. I have many a CD of jobs given to me by inspectors. I usually get along great with them. I have locked horns with a few but have never lost a fight with one. I know my job and do it well. Make sure you know yours.

 

[bigcatpip]

those that can do, those that cant become inspectors..

 

[Pecord Exc]

Born in the trench?:cool2 We definetly have a difference of opinion of what a mass excavating job is. I'm with Orchard Ex on this one too. Your little whim would get you laughed off one of my jobs. Not a big fan of number 9 either. I'll try to give you a time when I'll be ready for inspection if I'm early I won't wait, If I'm late and you have to wait to bad, I'm not gonna chase you all over to get you to do your job. Matter a fact number nine is related to number 2. Seems you need to take your own advice. I've never had a problem with inspectors taking pictures. Take all you want. I have many a CD of jobs given to me by inspectors. I usually get along great with them. I have locked horns with a few but have never lost a fight with one. I know my job and do it well. Make sure you know yours.

I was being factitious about my "mass excavating" experience. I will not give anyone a hard time if they are doing a good job. If you are a sleaze ball contractor with a 2000 dollar watch and fancy shoes leaving his mexican in charge that cannot speak english I will not give you the same respect as I would to someone who knows what is going on. I did not make this post to come out on a soap box and tell you all that you suck and an inspector is god. I greatly appologize for this post and any antimocity that it may have created. I was a grunt when i was younger a laborer for my fathers family excavation business. When i got older I began driving trucks and running equipment for him. No i have never run a 385 or a 992 usually just 320's and a John Deere 455E track loader.

As far as the communication topic lashlander, there are things that I have to sign off on and witness, water main pressure tests, deflection tests, low pressure air for sewer, vacuum testing of manholes, there is no reason that there cant be a few hours of notice, I dont mind waiting. How would you feel if your paving sub comes and paves the site before you ran a trench for water through a parking lot. Then he comes out and tells you that "he couldnt wait" :beatsme

I do know my job and I do the best I can every day whether I be putting in a septic system on a saturday or welding up a bucket one night, or changing the clutch in out dump truck laying in the back on the mud, or even checking the install of an underground storm system. I learn everyday from contractors like you on the right way to do things, and a good protion of my knowledge comes from working hand in hand with contractors.

I apologize for coming out brash and like a preacher. I understand that you guys are standing up for yourselves and others like you and hope that we can all get along despite this post.

 

[LowBoy]

I have to just add my .2 cents along with Orchard Ex and Lashlander on this topic, not necessarily your character in question, but the "abusive authority" that some inspectors possess.

I just left a fairly decent job close to home in exchange for a position away from a Fed. funded job, due to the overzealousness of some brand new, gun ho inspectors on that site.

One in particular that I dubbed with the name, "sniveling little twit", would do as your #8 grief explaination exposed. He did indeed, several times, just to show his "power" make myself and several other operators on this job tear out a stick of pipe or remove several feet of compacted backfill for being 1% low on the compaction test number.Usually the following day after the test was conducted. He got his kicks by making things hard on everybody, and the more we complained, the more the engineering firm that employed him sent him back. He ended up on the site permanantly because he has a tendency to be anal about things, and it caused somewhat of an internal "war game" between them and the general contractor.

The thing that got my goat was, he was instructed to not talk directly to a sleazeball operator like myself, only to a foreman, and the foreman was to relay the message to me...10 feet away from the sniveling little twit. That frosted my you-know-what to no end. One day in particular I was working up against a "highly protected wetland area", basically a ditch on the haulroad. I had my excavator tracks touching the high side of the ditch, touching the orange construction fence, and he got all defensive. He looked at the foreman (a 21 yr. old kid, again, 10 feet from me, the same distance away from the twit,) and said,"tell him to get that machine out of MY wetlands!!!" When he did that, he didn't realize just how close he came to me stepping off that machine and picking him up, and drop kicking him for a field goal. I'd had about enough of the game by then.

If it weren't in writing on that print, he denied it, no holds barred. We finally were instructed to not listen to a word he said, and that his words were an "opinion only", so just build it to spec and ignore the twit altogether. Since that order, every time someone ignored him he'd be on the cellphone and within an hour, 3 more "veteran" inspectors would show up to make it tougher. This kid was fresh out of class and was his first job.

If you want to be a big help to the industry, I'd strongly suggest you take these new gun-ho inspectors aside and educated them a little on how to develop a relationship with the quality contractors, and know how to identify the crumb-bums from the best. teach them to work with people, not against them. Right is right, quality is critical, but there are those circumstances once in a while that warrant a little understanding and leaniency.

To clarify my reasoning for posting this Pecord, in all due respect to you and your colleagues, the feeling's mutual out in the field. You show the proper respect, you'll get it back 10 fold. But don't go around telling people not to get in your face like that, because as I just explained, as nice a guy as I am, that little twit I just wrote about would have caused me to have done something that would have been expensive on my part had I not quit the job beforehand.

Sorry I butted in, but some things need to be revealed I think.

 

[Pecord Exc]

I undersatnd you whole heartedly Lowboy and once again I apologize for coming off the way I did. I do NOT give a good contractor a hard time. My post was more of a rant, and it wasnt directed towards legitamate contractors, I had gone to check a job, that I knew would be a problem from the bid opening. Contractor was 30k lower than everyone else on a 200k job. The Client, had 6 contractors bid the job prices wer 198k, 197.5k, 197.75k, 200k and 167k, the contractor for 167k won the job. The town wnated my office to go out and check the silt fence install as well as the tracking pad etc, so he could start construction. The silt fence was installed at the bottom of a slope not dug in at all and backwards, (the stakes were installed on the backside). There was no tracking pad, the contractor was pulling stumps and attempting to bury them under the building pad. I did shut the job down and the contractor got in my face yelling that time was money who did I think I was etc etc. What should I do in this situation. he was doing work that we had not yet gotten the permit for, clearly didnt know the proper way to install silt fence, (in this instance very important, the job is updgradient from a busy road with a lot of eyes duch as dec to hand out BIG fines to our client), and he got in my face?

 

[dirt digger]

theres an SEO around here that got strangled by a contrator...shes a real b*tch anyway...any job in her area we have to add 10% because of all the loop holes she makes us go through...

the guy that choked her ended up doing 2 years or something and she sued him for most of what he had over a few scratches...

so Lowboy its a good thing you didn't get off your machine

 

[Turbo21835]

In regards to pictures, do the companies you deal with not do as built drawings for themselves? At the very least have measurements written down in a grade book. Around here it is common for the foreman to have written down how many feet of pipe between structures, or how many feet from the T is a valve. When running the hoe, i tend to keep a book of this info just because. I learned for a wise daygo that if you figure out how long it takes to do something, you can figure out what it costs. When you know how much to charge for items, it makes going out on your own easier.

I agree with #2. But i would say staff a job properly. Last guy I worked for was bad about this. A lot of times there was 1 or 2 guys on a job that needed at least 4. Instead of telling a customer no, he would send a few guys. All this does is **** the customer off, and doesnt allow you to finish anything.

On #7 what do you consider beat on? Ill push on, and even wiggle a structure to get it to grade. Not saying im going to drop the hammer on it or anything like that. Im also going to watch my pipelayer level things off for the structure. If he did a ****** job, im not setting the structure, or if its way out of whack, im picking the structure back up and make sure he does what needs to be done to fix it.

Ive got one for you. Dont tell me how to do something if you dont have the foggiest idea on whats going on. I was on a grading crew that had to use portland cement to stabilize a parking lot. We had a guy in the company that was the only thing he did. I had to run the spreader truck and help with the rest of the process. First of all the soil cop was telling me i need exactly a quarter inch of cement to get our % of cement to soil ratio. No more, no less. If it was more, we were charging the customer for more than they needed, if it was less, of course we were shafting the customer. I dont know many grader operators that can carry a quarter of an inch over the distances we were doing, let alone do it with a powder. Finally the soil we were mixing the cement into was dry. This was the final lift, and we were using the cement to bridge wet ground. The soil tech wanted us to use NO WATER. I may not be the smartest guy, but i know to get cement activated, you need moisture. The ground was so dry, when we mixed the cement, it turned a heavy clay soil into a soil that resembled sand. So he pounded his nuke gauge in the ground, and told us what we did wasnt going to fix the problem. He had to run and check on another job. While he was gone, we did our next section, spread the cement, than ran the water truck over it, then mixed it in. I also watered the first section. He came back and tested again. All of a sudden things worked. But i was the idiot that said we need to add water

 

[Pecord Exc]

In regards to pictures, do the companies you deal with not do as built drawings for themselves? At the very least have measurements written down in a grade book. Around here it is common for the foreman to have written down how many feet of pipe between structures, or how many feet from the T is a valve. When running the hoe, i tend to keep a book of this info just because. I learned for a wise daygo that if you figure out how long it takes to do something, you can figure out what it costs. When you know how much to charge for items, it makes going out on your own easier.

It is my companies job to prepare the as-built drawings, We do have a surveyor in house but they obviously can't be there all the time. And Godforbid a problem arises later it is good to have records

I agree with #2. But i would say staff a job properly. Last guy I worked for was bad about this. A lot of times there was 1 or 2 guys on a job that needed at least 4. Instead of telling a customer no, he would send a few guys. All this does is **** the customer off, and doesnt allow you to finish anything.

On #7 what do you consider beat on? Ill push on, and even wiggle a structure to get it to grade. Not saying im going to drop the hammer on it or anything like that. Im also going to watch my pipelayer level things off for the structure. If he did a ****** job, im not setting the structure, or if its way out of whack, im picking the structure back up and make sure he does what needs to be done to fix it.

The other day I saw an operator pick his bucket up 5 feet off of the structure then come down on it as fast as he could. Gently pursuasion is ok in my book, dropping the bucket on it is not!

Ive got one for you. Dont tell me how to do something if you dont have the foggiest idea on whats going on. I was on a grading crew that had to use portland cement to stabilize a parking lot. We had a guy in the company that was the only thing he did. I had to run the spreader truck and help with the rest of the process. First of all the soil cop was telling me i need exactly a quarter inch of cement to get our % of cement to soil ratio. No more, no less. If it was more, we were charging the customer for more than they needed, if it was less, of course we were shafting the customer. I dont know many grader operators that can carry a quarter of an inch over the distances we were doing, let alone do it with a powder. Finally the soil we were mixing the cement into was dry. This was the final lift, and we were using the cement to bridge wet ground. The soil tech wanted us to use NO WATER. I may not be the smartest guy, but i know to get cement activated, you need moisture. The ground was so dry, when we mixed the cement, it turned a heavy clay soil into a soil that resembled sand. So he pounded his nuke gauge in the ground, and told us what we did wasnt going to fix the problem. He had to run and check on another job. While he was gone, we did our next section, spread the cement, than ran the water truck over it, then mixed it in. I also watered the first section. He came back and tested again. All of a sudden things worked. But i was the idiot that said we need to add water

I agree with you 110%

 

[LowBoy]

I undersatnd you whole heartedly Lowboy and once again I apologize for coming off the way I did.

I understand as well Pecord...sometimes type is a little tough to determine the amount of positive or negative overtones compared to a conversation 1 on 1.

I do NOT give a good contractor a hard time. My post was more of a rant, and it wasnt directed towards legitamate contractors, I had gone to check a job, that I knew would be a problem from the bid opening. Contractor was 30k lower than everyone else on a 200k job.

That would generally raise a red flag under normal circumstances. 30K less is a low ball figure for sure.

The silt fence was installed at the bottom of a slope not dug in at all and backwards, (the stakes were installed on the backside). There was no tracking pad, the contractor was pulling stumps and attempting to bury them under the building pad.

Bet you couldn't wait to see the rest of the intricate work they were about to perform...

What should I do in this situation. he was doing work that we had not yet gotten the permit for, clearly didnt know the proper way to install silt fence, (in this instance very important, the job is updgradient from a busy road with a lot of eyes duch as dec to hand out BIG fines to our client), and he got in my face?

Just the fact that they started disturbing the soil upgrade from the road without silt fence, would be an indication you've got your hands full with these guys.

Off topic a bit, but to shore up my statement about trying to make a point with type vs. audible conversations...I had this ongoing thing with our 14 yr. old daughter's school bus company recently. They picked her up and dropped her off last school year in front of the house here. We live on a somewhat busy, but extremely rural section of highway, 10 miles from the nearest town and school. They decided this year, they were going to drop her off .6 miles west of here in a convenient bus turnaround and have her walk, due to rising fuel costs... W R O N G.

I had my wife start the process by calling the bus co. manager. The jerk laughed at my wife when she made mention of our concerns for our daughter's safety, and possibility of abduction nowadays. Another bad thing for the manager to do. Now I get involved. Once I start on a mission to prove a point knowing the mission is based on proper morals, I will have to be shot between the eyes to make me stop till I get the justice I set out for.

I emailed the school principal, the school board director, the financial secretary (who writes the checks to the bus company for transporting students,) and several others, including, but not limited to, my state representative on the matter. A month went by after everyone read my "stern, but to-the-point" cc emails. I stated in them that "suppose my daughter was to be pulled into a car by some jerk and she disappears...what will we get then...an "I'm sorry email" from all you people who are making this simple situation so difficult?"

In conclusion, I got a call from the state representative, who in turn called the school board director, who finally gave in and now the bus turns around in our driveway.

Point being, had I been a wet noodle and took the path of least resistance and tried to "rationalize" with these morons, who laughed at the cold hard fact that there are 75 registered sex offenders in the town the school is in alone, and it is highly possible for this little girl to be walking this rural stretch of highway every day to have some nut watch her, and make his move one day. Then what...I go downtown and take my frustrations out on all those limpwrists that fought me in the first place? Ain't gonna happen. So, after all my "red faced ranting" on the email warpath, I humbly announce, I won.

That was one instance where the "negative overtones" in my typing was advantageous. I try to be careful when not proving a point whenever possible though.:drinkup

 

[jmac]

I think that it is great to have an inspector or architect posting on this site. After the general contractor the inspector is the most important person to me when in comes to getting paid. We all know the GC is going to take to long to pay you your money and then god forbid you get the retainer before 12 months pass. I make it a point to tell the inspector that I am on his side and do want to work together. I even encourage him to tell me if he observes use doing something not to spec so I can fix it before it is backfilled. I also expect him to be able to show me on the prints that we did it wrong before I plan on redoing any work I do. The worse ones that I have worked for are the ones that do state collage work. I have had them make me dig up a back filled trench to prove that I used stone bedding or to test compaction. Just had one do this to me this summer on a state job. Compaction was 98% and we did use number 2 and 1 stone mixed as bedding, then gravel ( not 1's or 2's oh no!) but 2's and 1's mixed just like the plans. They make me give them five copies of my submittals, not one but five. They do to me what Lowboy describes. They always take photo’s. I ask them for a set, why not could use the photo's in the future. I have had them ask me if I should be using a trench box when the trench is 4’ deep. I said, just add the stone and pipe and you will only be 3’ deep. I think that if you pretend that they are in charge than they leave you alone or better yet prove them wrong the first day by proving to them that you do know what you are doing. I have had inspectors test after we just received 3"s of rain, again 98% , all this on state jobs. they can be a pain in but and I have wanted to punch a few of them but in the end I just go back to the GC's and let them handle it. I am not the prime contractor on any state jobs and don’t think I want to be.
They have their job to do and I have mine, it is a lot easier to tell some one to do this or do that than it is to do it, it is not the inspectors money when then want you to dig up a trench to prove them wrong it’s the contractors.

 

[Lashlander]

Like I said. 99% of the time I never have a problem with inspectors. I don't cut cornors and don't have anything to hide. This is the reasons 99% of the inspectors that work with us have no problems with us.
The inspectors I have had problems with in the past come on the job with the same attitude as this thread. Talks about his little whims. When he gets called on it he backs way down and say he only don't like contractors who wear $2,000 dollar watches and employ Mexicans. I'm not buying it. This post breeds contemp from all angles. Your an inspector, you have no business how I staff my job. If my job is done wrong, shut it down. Pure and simple.

Oh and by the way, I think we'd get along great. I wear a $30 timex and have no Mexicans working for me at the time.


I'm done with this subject!

 

[BigK600]

I did my first summer if construction inspection this last summer. I'm a Civil Engineering student. I thought it was the easist job of my life and boring. Most of the contractors I worked with knew what they were doing. I watched over underground crews, paving, and a demo job. I the biggest thing is communication, such as with the paving job, let me know what your plan is a couple days ahead, that way its alot easier for me to work around you, getting surveyors out there, compaction tests, etc. Sometimes the contractor wouldnt understand that I was actually there to save them work, such as if I found them making a mistake and had to correct them they might get a little pissy, however in the long run I saved them a bunch of work and money. Now with the demo job I was on, one crew was complete retards, seriously they were like a bunch of 10 year olds and I had to babysit them. The were always whining, bitching, fighting among each other. Couldnt get more unprofessional then that crew. Good thing I only had to deal with it for a couple days. I learned what you say and how you say it can really make the foreman be a jerk or not.

 

[BigK600]

One thing about photos: I hope when I was out there taking pictures the contractor didnt get pissed at me. Because usually I was only taking pictures because I was bored and there was nothing else to do. Nothing was wrong with what the contractor was doing.

 

[BigK600]

One thing I learned this summer is always deal with just the foreman, unless its something simple and the foreman is no where to be found. Also NEVER tell the foreman HOW to do his job, just tell him that this or that needs to be done or changed.