Tie down D5H

[cannuck]

No, not worried about it blowing away in a winter storm. Posted this question inside of another post, but I realize now there is no reason for someone to go there to find the question. This is regarding my D5H LGP:

I have to bring this new lawn ornament home, and I guess the first question for that is how best to tie it down to the trailer. I will use a rented single drop tandem beavertail (don't know if my rollback will lift 34k so will not take a chance until it is home in yard). Since I have a drawbar, I am assuming a pair of doubled over 1/2" grade 70 transport chains will meet the required brake (or crash) load of 80% if at sufficient angle. BUT: what do I do at the front? Blade has to be full sweep to get under 12'6" max for no pilot car, and I am not at all crazy about chaining up directly to the 34" track pads. What works and is legal?

 

[bronco71]

To be legal here over 10,000 lb we have to have 4 SEPARATE chains and boomers at the 4 corners from the pads to the tie downs PLUS another chain and boomer for each attachment including blades, rippers, hoe etc. Ratchet boomers are preferred, they have nearly done away with lever boomers here.....

 

[cannuck]

I have heard of the fifth (and six, etc.) chain used on excavators, but had never heard of it before on a blade that is attached. Interesting.

What do you get for chain STRENGTH values?

I don't WANT to tied down to the pads, but in the front, unless I had one on the A frame, I could not see any other way. Ditto, can't see how a chain could be laid from A frame over or under the blade at full sweep. Some have told me they tied down to the blade itself, but can't see that being allowed.

 

[bronco71]

I have argued that the blade is not coming off the dozer but that is the law here. Can't use a long chain with 2 boomers on separate corners either so I have cut my chains in half using the hook end thru the tie down and attaching the boomer to the other end of the chain and then directly to the pad on all 4 corners. One full chain and boomer across the blade to make them happy. I tow my little 450B loader (13000 lbs) like this all the time and when my Case 1150 dozer and my JD755 track loader and my old D7 were delivered by different companies they were tied down the same way. 3/8" grade 70 was used on all but the D7, 1/2" on it....if it was me towing the bigger ones I would use 1/2" grade 70. The 1150 is about 28,000lb, the 755 is 33,500lb and the D7 is almost 40,000lb.

 

[lantraxco]

That's what those eyes are for on the top corners of the blade, use the biggest shackle that will fit the hole, cross chain. Even with the blade angled, should be okay.

I have throughout my life dearly wished that some manufacturers gave even a little thought to lifting and tying down the machines they build... :Banghead

 

[bam1968]

That's what those eyes are for on the top corners of the blade, use the biggest shackle that will fit the hole, cross chain. Even with the blade angled, should be okay.

I have throughout my life dearly wished that some manufacturers gave even a little thought to lifting and tying down the machines they build... :Banghead

lantraxco, I couldn't have said that any better myself!!! All of the time and money involved in engineering these machines and they gave, for the most part, no consideration when it comes to tying them down.

 

[bronco71]

lantraxco, I couldn't have said that any better myself!!! All of the time and money involved in engineering these machines and they gave, for the most part, no consideration when it comes to tying them down.

That's the truth, and then if you are pulled over it is mostly up to the trooper whether they think it is done right or not...

 

[cannuck]

called SK highways enforcement help line, got one story that I found to be nonsnes (four tiedowns minimum of 5k lbs. ea). and on your way. BUT: I did get told they use the NSC no. 10 standard - which I have now downloaded and read.

0.8 g longitudinally forward - that is 20k per chain @ 45 degrees! Takes a doubled over 1/2 gr 70 to do that.

0.5 lateral and long aft, so a single 1/2" run @ 45 from each side is BARELY legal.

Supposed to be from "corner of vehicle" or intended tiedown point, so I need to know what CAT says about that. Still not crazy about the pads, so will use drawbar at rear.

Now, as per Bronco's TX law: it is very specific that "accessories" must be tied independently, and blades must be fully lowered. So much for four chains. I will throw a set of 3/8 of the ends of the blade, but still need to use 1/2" onto SOMETHING on the front of the tractor. Easy to go behind a fully swept blade, but how the hell am I supposed to go THROUGH a fully lowered blade on the other side???????

Hmmmmmmm....

 

[bronco71]

I would lower the blade onto heavy blocks and pass the chain under the blade.

 

[ol'stonebreaker]

Don't understand why you have such a hangup about chaining to the pads. Since you insist on the drawbar, with the hitch pin in wrap the chain around the inside of the hitch once and put a binder on each side.
Mike

 

[bronco71]

Don't understand why you have such a hangup about chaining to the pads. Since you insist on the drawbar, with the hitch pin in wrap the chain around the inside of the hitch once and put a binder on each side.
Mike

Everyone that have hauled my track equipment say the boomer to the pads is the preferred way to tie down as long as there are no mfg. tie downs present.....I have seen some chained from pad to opposite side tiedown with separate chains crossed and 2 boomers.

The law here says separate chains and boomers at each corner, chaining to center of drawbar is not allowed, especially with a single chain.

 

[cannuck]

Using drawbar requires two runs of 1/2" chain EACH SIDE to meet required strength for 0.8 Gs (i.e. one chain each side doubled back to two different attach points on outer rail). I have not done the calculations, but if you think about the leverage that a 34" pad has to attachment points, and just how much room on the deck a minimum 45 degrees (max 60 or you run out of 0.5 lateral load limit) would require to cross chain from the 10' extreme of the track pads, you can see why I am not crazy about the idea. Using the track pads me be common, but if you have enough angle on the chains to meet required load, I can tell you that the track pads are not the right place to be.

Also, thought of blocking the blade, but there is ANOTHER number to consider: reg requires 20% of load downward, so 12 degrees of rise in chain over full run. Going from front of track pad at 45 degrees would mean blade one foot off of the deck! Ain't gonna happen.

 

[redneckracin]

I think you are forgetting that binders that will take a full 1/2" chain are rated for more than the chain is....

 

[walkerv]

Using drawbar requires two runs of 1/2" chain EACH SIDE to meet required strength for 0.8 Gs (i.e. one chain each side doubled back to two different attach points on outer rail). I have not done the calculations, but if you think about the leverage that a 34" pad has to attachment points, and just how much room on the deck a minimum 45 degrees (max 60 or you run out of 0.5 lateral load limit) would require to cross chain from the 10' extreme of the track pads, you can see why I am not crazy about the idea. Using the track pads me be common, but if you have enough angle on the chains to meet required load, I can tell you that the track pads are not the right place to be.

Also, thought of blocking the blade, but there is ANOTHER number to consider: reg requires 20% of load downward, so 12 degrees of rise in chain over full run. Going from front of track pad at 45 degrees would mean blade one foot off of the deck! Ain't gonna happen.

Just my 2 cents you maybe triing to follow by the book a little to closely unless your dot guys are really aholes where you are at. our heavy hual guys when in doubt threw on extra chains and binders to make sure it wasnt going anywhere , I would like to see a trooper properly chain a load down by there regulation book . as bronco said it is up to the particular trooper looking at it ,why are guys would throw on extra if it looked safe and had plenty of chains on it they usually didnt get pulled over

 

[Junkyard]

Also, if you doubled the 1/2" chain through the drawbar what do you have on a trailer that would hold the "suggested" load the regulations seem to think you may encounter, short of a monster set of D-rings there's nothing on a smaller trailer that will absorb that about of stress. That entire regulation is nonsense written by a person who doesn't even know what a binder is. There is absolutely no issue with using the pads in addition to the blade and whatever you have on the rear. I've run over a million miles in the US and Canada and never once have I seen a trooper whip out a protractor to check my angles. They check chain size and quantity and generally that's it. FWIW I was hauling equipment considerably larger than a D5. We're not trying to move the Queen Mary.

Junkyard

 

[cannuck]

I will be using a trailer designed to haul heavy equipment (external frame rails, very deep). It does, indeed, have tiedowns rated to hold the required load. That is why I am using a doubled back 1/2" chain - as it takes two of the tiedowns I measured on that particular trailer to carry the 0.8g (20k @ 45 degrees) load at a DSF of 3, thus I need to separate ends of chain to do so.

I could no doubt get away with just about anything that had enough chain on it, as the average scale or mobile agent is not an engineer and can not calculate or even estimate loads. That does not relieve me of the responsibility to know and comply with the exact requirements.

I did get to the local Caterpillar dealer, and got the official line from them. On a series II D5H, there is supposed to be a front loop under the nose meant to tie down the front of the tractor. The two tiedown points at the rear mentioned were the drawbar and a ripper as equipped. They were very specific that the pads NOT be used, except for lateral location - and then from INSIDE edge of track pad directly to the outside rail of the trailer - NOT to carry any longitudinal loads. Had the guy I bought it from go and check to see, and sure enough, there is an eye on the centerline under the nose. That SHOULD allow enough of an angle to get the front tied behind the blade.

I had SEVERAL people say pretty much what Junkyard did. Yes, you CAN do all of those things, and maybe for a million or so miles. But, the bottom line is the track pads are NOT designed for this load. Also, thinking back over the years: I have seldom seen a cross-tied chain on a heavy tractor that was at a sufficient angle to even come close to meeting the required longitudinal load. I don't make the rules of physics (nor laws of cargo securement), I just have to live with them.

A note on load binders: Yes, SOME ratchet tiedowns are rated for more than 1/2" Gr 70 chain, but not all. I found the best number I could get on available 1/2-5/8 binder was 13k. Works for the 11,500 of 1/2", but not enough to cover the 15,800# of 5/8. The 3/8-1/2 ones I found were all under required rating for 1/2 gr 70.

 

[bam1968]

So, if I read this right, you are saying that it takes 4 1/2 inch chains/binders and 2 3/8 chains/ binders on a 34,000 lb dozer to barely be legal?? Are you planning on moving this dozer frequently? If so, then you will be spending most of your time throwing chains. I normally only use 4 3/8 chains on a 45,000 lb dozer (which I know is not enough) that gets moved 1-2 times a week locally. I have been verbally warned about not chaining the blade down but that's about it. Personally, I'm too lazy to use 1/2 inch chain. Just my $.02

 

[redneckracin]

.....

A note on load binders: Yes, SOME ratchet tiedowns are rated for more than 1/2" Gr 70 chain, but not all. I found the best number I could get on available 1/2-5/8 binder was 13k. Works for the 11,500 of 1/2", but not enough to cover the 15,800# of 5/8. The 3/8-1/2 ones I found were all under required rating for 1/2 gr 70.

Just did a quick search and found these.

http://www.truckntow.com/cargo-control/load-binders/cm-domestic-ratchet-binders.html

15k right there. I was trying to point out that you can up your securement values by grabbing some tie down points on the track frames with just binders and not have to worry about what the chain is rated for as well. Those binders are WAY above the 11.8k that the 1/2" chain is rated for.

 

[cannuck]

bam: yes, the 1/2" stuff is a lot heavier, and you are right - a lot of buggering around, but it is needed to be legal and reality is even the legal minimum is only good for bouncing down the road, not bouncing off of other vehicles. I am old enough to be from a time when light loads (airboats in my case) were tied down with rope. You want to talk about a lot of work to secure and KEEP tight! Technically, it is 6 runs of 1/2" (from 4 chains) plus two bits of 3/8 to meet the letter of the law. You are right in assuming that even here, 90% of the time, the guy looking at it will assume that there is enough chain without really knowing what is required. Just that both corporately and professionally I can not afford to colour over the lines.

redneckracing: I would kill to be able to walk in the door and buy US made load binders. We are so screwed by Chinese imports, it is a matter of getting the brand name (still made in China) that you trust to come as close as possible to telling the truth about their load rating. The only US ones even listed locally were Crosby, none in stock and $250+ EACH!!

Until I get to see this thing, I am not sure where on the track frame I could grab. I think I am allright now with the factory version of tiedown and the rather large chains and binders (13k) I have for the purpose. With 10' track width on a 9' trailer, binders alone won't work.

 

[Junkyard]

Hell if US made stuff is that high there you could darn near afford to come visit me and load up some of the chains and binders I have. I bet there's 6 55 gallon drums full of chains and binders. If it wasn't so heavy to ship I could do that too. Sounds crazy but I'm so tired of moving them around! I HATE the import binders with a passion. Pure junk and they seldom stand up to their "rating".

Junkyard