Steep slopes, what's your experience?

[pete40]

I have 150 acres of mainly steep forested country in Qld, Australia near Dayboro. At present the only tracks down the steep slopes have been made many years ago by dozers to get the timber logs out after tree felling. This activity stopped years ago and the forest growth is thick again.

I want a small machine that will get me access down these slopes so that I can make a series of walking and small bike tracks, so that I can then manage this forest resource properly.

I don't want to push big trees, maybe just saplings. I feel a dozer would be too big and cause too much collateral damage.

I have been looking at small track loaders as an alternative, but all the brochures and literature only show them in flat terrain, backyard landscape type scenarios. This is NOT my application.

A wheeled vehicle is definitely NOT an option as traction and stability would not allow me to do side-cuts on the slopes.

How much traction do the rubber tracks have? Obviously not as much as steel.

How much dirt can you push with one? I mean "ground" dirt, not a load of dumped soil.

How stable are these things in a precarious slope situation?

I feel one with suspension would be best. The mini-excavator type ones would not suit.

Anybody with any stories or actual experience in this type of terrain I would like to hear from.

 

[Jake]

steep slopes

Try a John deere 35D on rubber. That's what we have at work. They hold the hills fairly well. Get one with an angle backfill blade so you can use it as a dozer as well.

 

[pete40]

Try a John deere 35D on rubber. That's what we have at work. They hold the hills fairly well. Get one with an angle backfill blade so you can use it as a dozer as well.

Isn't that an an excavator? - probably wouldn't suit my application.

 

[Tri-Star]

My experience with real steep stuff and my Bobcat T300 is ok at best. It performs very well on steep slopes, but that is pure dirt also, no vegitation, rock, etc. I would say that I am very experienced on this machine, I have been running it for over 4 years and what you are wanting is probably possible but if you are not familiar with the machine you could easily get in a bind or worse endanger your self and your life. Where as pioneering trails on really steep ground I would prefer a mini excavator because you can use the blade to keep yourself fairly level, with a thumb on it you can sort through vegitation and debris, and dig on the high side and fill the low side, and do some grading with the blade. I once was in this same situation, needed to put some silt fence up at the bottom of a really steep ridge and it was too much for the T300 so I rented a mini ex and cut a trail across the bottom and then used a small trencher for the silt fence. Hope this helps if you have any more questions fell free to ask.
Brian

 

[pete40]

Thanks Tristar,

I am fully aware of the roll-over dangers of the operation I am trying to achieve - it may not be possible. Care will be taken no matter what. You are the second to suggest using an excavator. I feel it wouldn't suit as I am trail-blazing to most degrees and excavators work best (and brilliantly) when they have some semblance of a track to start with that is usually blazed by a dozer.

I hope to get some more replies and other guys experience.

We just don't have the choice of equipment here in Australia that you guys do over there. I luckily have worked in alot of places in the world and seen alot of ideas, but I just can't pinpoint the best solution for my application yet.

I guess what I really need to know is can you use a compact track loader like a small dozer - and which one is the MOST stable on hillsides.

 

[hackalot]

Have you looked at ASV?

Thanks Tristar,

I am fully aware of the roll-over dangers of the operation I am trying to achieve - it may not be possible. Care will be taken no matter what. You are the second to suggest using an excavator. I feel it wouldn't suit as I am trail-blazing to most degrees and excavators work best (and brilliantly) when they have some semblance of a track to start with that is usually blazed by a dozer.

I hope to get some more replies and other guys experience.

We just don't have the choice of equipment here in Australia that you guys do over there. I luckily have worked in alot of places in the world and seen alot of ideas, but I just can't pinpoint the best solution for my application yet.

I guess what I really need to know is can you use a compact track loader like a small dozer - and which one is the MOST stable on hillsides.

I'm doing some similar type work for myself. I have finished a base trail using a mini ex and now have to do the steep slope trails. I haven't made a final decision on which equipment to use, but my research so far has pointed me to an ASV 50 or 60. I think next month I will rent one for a day to see just what type of slope it can handle.

I,m sure there are other members on this site who have used the ASV in slope situations. One of the press releases on their website talks about a contractor using one in Colorado Springs, Coloarado doing golf cart paths. I would think the slopes encountered there would be pretty severe.

I'll post my experience after I try one of these ASV machines.

 

[pete40]

.....

I'll post my experience after I try one of these ASV machines.

Excellent stuff - I am looking forward to it.

 

[bobcatmechanic]

i dont know if anyone rents them over there but if your buying the bobcat t320's have a suspension under carriage on them as an option and they have a forestry cutter for them if you want to pretty much chip up the trees and saplings if you are making trails they will do a 12 in tree intermittently so they are rated

 

[bobcatmechanic]

that or raco makes a tree chipper machine that looks like a dozer that is designed just for clearing trees don't know how stable they are on slops

 

[Bob Horrell]

I have cut trails on steep slopes with both Bobcat and ASV track machines. There is no way you could operate a golf cart on the trails I cut. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, but both worked well. I have also cut steep trails with a skiploader, working from the top down, backing and using the back of the box scraper as a dozer blade.
A lot depends upon the type of soil and the moisture content. You would be amazed at the steep slopes you can work on if the soil is tacky. Dry, loose soil really limits what can be done regardless of the machine.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

I will throw in for the excavator as well. My first choice would be a dozer, but you are concerned about "collateral damage". A MTL will tear up as much as a small dozer would, and it is harder to bench into a hillside.

The excavator, and I am sugesting about a 3.5 ton to 4 ton machine, with a blade, can selectivly excavate into the high side, and cast the spoils onto the low side. A pass with the blade will make a nic path out of it.
I did read right that you are looking for walking sized paths, not for vehicles?

The advantage of the excavator is you can self level with the blade to cut into steep hills, you can dig up rocks, stumps, and other obstacles that would be harder with a MTL. In easy ground, the MTL would work faster than the excavator, but it sounds like your concern is for the steep areas, and the ability of the excavator to place material exactly where it is needed to level things out is what makes it shine.
Add a thumb to it, and you can move trees, branches, rocks, and all kinds of other things around.

I built a road a couple of years back, on a larger scale, up the side of a very steep mountain. Over a 900 ft drop at an average slope in excess of 100%, or steeper than 45%. When I could not make any headway with the D-8R I was operating, I brought up the 330CL excavator to dig my way through the places that the dozer would not touch.
The same holds true on a smaller scale.

Just my 2 cents worth.

PS, I wrote this before Bob's post, and he has a very good point about the soil type and moisture.
Nice damp tacky groung and the MTL will shine. I still think the trackhoe is more versatile though, for what you described.

 

[pete40]

I have cut trails on steep slopes with both Bobcat and ASV track machines. There is no way you could operate a golf cart on the trails I cut. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, but both worked well. I have also cut steep trails with a skiploader, working from the top down, backing and using the back of the box scraper as a dozer blade.
A lot depends upon the type of soil and the moisture content. You would be amazed at the steep slopes you can work on if the soil is tacky. Dry, loose soil really limits what can be done regardless of the machine.

I like the sound of that.

But what is a "skiploader" - just not up with your terminology. Show me one please.

I will have to just try to hire both an MTL and a track excavator to compare.

I have just had a contractor on the property making large scale road for vehicles using a D7 and a large excavator. That worked well for what was required. Now I want to get alot of small walking-width, or quad(ATV)-width tracks, at most, to access the rest of the property which is heavily forested and steep slopes.

 

[pete40]

Just realised a "skiploader" is just a "front-end loader/back-hoe" device.

 

[humboldt deere]

I also think a mini ex would be a better choice. You can cut the roads in and blade them smooth. When you are done you can put the drainage in with the same machine. On steep trails their will no doubt be some culverts to install and some ditching on the uphill side.

 

[pete40]

I also think a mini ex would be a better choice. You can cut the roads in and blade them smooth. When you are done you can put the drainage in with the same machine. On steep trails their will no doubt be some culverts to install and some ditching on the uphill side.

Wont get that technical on these trails I don't think, but may. Am only planning walking-width to ATV-width.

 

[SouthOnBeach]

I put another in vote for a mini-ex for steep trail cutting. If you're in hard ground I think you're going to find the mini-ex faster then a MTL.

 

[stumpjumper83]

minni ex.... and yes you will need uphill drainage. You should have the path leening into the hill a little bit so if your traveling on it and you loose traction, you go into the bank tather than over the bank. Now you path's contour is going to work like a diversion ditch for the water comming down off the slope, and unless you want that to erode your work, your going to need to catch it and send it off the downhill side of the path. You can do that with pipe and ditches, or you can use a small swale cut diagonal to the path to send the water over. If use the latter, you should seed it, and stay off it when its wet, and you may have to do maintence periodically on it. Using pipe cost more up front, but is less of a hassle.

 

[LowBoy]

My vote's for the mini-ex as well. A Cat 307, or comparable with a blade. The versatility is uncompromized with an excavator in terms of performing what you have described. Your spoils can be casted from the high side of slope to the lower to build the bench, as well as stumping, grubbing, etc. Plus the benefit of the grading blade gives you the "2 machines for the price of 1" concept.

 

[pete40]

OK - the opinion is definitely going the way of the mini-ex. But I repeat my scepticism of the instability on the initial uncut, virgin, steep slope. Is this not a factor? I will be popping off a ridge-line, trying to cut a side-track down a VERY steep slope. remember, these are not for vehicles, just walking, quads, bicycles, motorbikes.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Pete
Remember this. When you drop over the side on a dozer or MTL, you have only the traction and stability of the machines tracks to stay on top. With the mini ex, you still have the tracks, but if you slip a little, you can use the boom to push yourself back. Also, as we have said, you can cut a bench into the hill BEFORE your tracks get to the location. One of the main reasons of using the excavator in these coditions is the ability to make sure the ground is stable before you get on it, and it is easier to dig into the hard bank while sitting in a stable location, and then push forward after the hill has a nice bench cut in.

Keep in mind, I have built many miles of steeeep roads with a dozer, but to do the small work you speak of, I would take the mini any day. I have put my 303CR Cat mini down some very steep banks, and always have the confidence of the boom to push where I need to go, as well as the blade to help hold me level while I work with the boom.