Spoke/Dayton wheels

[Effinay]

I want to remove my tires/rims on 86 International so I can paint everything. I thought I read in another thread that there is much skill and practice needed to get them on right so they don't wobble. Could somebody offer any tips or tricks to accomplish this? Thanks.

 

[grandpa]

The process I use is after the wheels and tires are mounted to the hub, as I start to tightn the bolts , I stand a object along side of the outer most tire and proceed to spin the wheel.... where the tire contacts the object i've stood alongside the tire, it tightn that nut closest to that point a bit,,, keep spinning and tightning the corresponding lug untill the tire runs true to the object, then tightn down to spec torque....gramps.

 

[Effinay]

Thanks for your response Grandpa. Your method sounds pretty straight forward, I'm not quite sure about the torque specs though. I just figured on trying to get it running as true as possible and then using my 1-1/4 socket and 3/4 drive and give 'em a good tug. Drive a little bit and double check that they're still tight....

 

[Gmc7210]

When removing the wedges i always like to leave the lug nut threaded on about one thread until the pressure has been released from the wedge. This stops the wedges from flying all over when you tap on it sideways to release it. When painting the hub assembly i find in best to put little or no paint on the surface where the wheel mates to the hub. Make sure there is no rust on this surface. The next step is chock the rest of the wheels, build up your air, and release brakes.When reinstalling it the inner wheel make sure the valve stem is centered between two spokes. Reinstall ring, and then outer dual (again pay attention to valve stem). Replace any Lug nuts that stuck to a stud, or are mushroomed. Good clean studs are necessary so replace any bad ones (heat and double nut to remove). Place wedges and half way tighten lug nuts sequentially like you would on a car. Then take a sledge hammer, stand it upright, handle up centered on the tire. Keep the head about a quarter inch away from the tire. Spin the tire around, and watch for spots where the tire gets close to the hammer head, tighten wedges in those spots. keep doing this until their is minimal radial runout. After you get it true make sure all of the nuts are tight. Make sure you re-check this tightness after 50 miles or so. This takes a little practice but isnt that big of a deal.

 

[willie59]

When painting the hub assembly i find in best to put little or no paint on the surface where the wheel mates to the hub.

Ditto completely, would add this to this part, put a light coat of grease to this surface of hub, paint hub, wipe off grease, no paint there now.

 

[Effinay]

Thanks GMC. Very thorough explanation of the process, and something I can understand and follow. Attention to the lugs and studs are something I may have overlooked not having much experience changing these out.

 

[crane operator]

Just want to repeat what gmc said about taking off the tires. Loosen all your nuts but leave the nuts on the lug a turn or two. Take a hammer and tap on the wedges until they pop free- you'll know when they do because they'll bang out against the nuts. If you take the nuts all the way off and just grab the tires and wiggle, like you would with pilot or budd type wheels, the stuck wedges will suddenly fly loose, hitting you somewhere between your shins and waist (depends how tall you are). It will make you walk funny for a while. After the wedges bang loose, then you can take the nuts off the last turn and then remove the tires.

A lot of guys don't like the Dayton type wheels, because of the re-tightening procedure to make them run straight. I actually prefer them to a budd, or even pilot wheels. If i'm on the side of the road with just a ratchet and breaker bar, I can have a set of Dayton's off with 5 lugs. A budd wheel, if you need the inside one (its always the inside one with my luck), you have to take 10 nuts, then one wheel off, then do 10 more for the inner stud/nuts. And one of them always doesn't come loose like it should. And the Daytons are actually stronger in my opinion, you're carrying the weight from the large center spoke, rather than the vertical steel or aluminum rim width.

 

[johndeere123]

The dayton wheels should be torqued to 250ft/lbs in a criss cross pattern. The hub and stud piloted wheels should each be torqued to 500+-50lbs

 

[torquedoff]

This seems like the best thread to ask my question: I snapped an axle stud and broke a drill bit trying to remove the stud. I now need to remove the spoke so I can get the drill removed at the machine shop (by EDM). I was able to remove the wheel and I know how to remove the axle, but I am not sure how to remove the spoke. There are 5 bolts that hold on the spoke from the brake drum, but the whole stud spins. I figured I would start asking instead of guessing.

https://picasaweb.google.com/114486...=Gv1sRgCOzRufjl46iRMQ#5748542312931032658.jpg

 

[DirtHauler]

This seems like the best thread to ask my question: I snapped an axle stud and broke a drill bit trying to remove the stud. I now need to remove the spoke so I can get the drill removed at the machine shop (by EDM). I was able to remove the wheel and I know how to remove the axle, but I am not sure how to remove the spoke. There are 5 bolts that hold on the spoke from the brake drum, but the whole stud spins. I figured I would start asking instead of guessing.

https://picasaweb.google.com/114486...=Gv1sRgCOzRufjl46iRMQ#5748542312931032658.jpg

The "spokes" are part of the hub, you have to take the axle bearing nut off and remove the entire hub. I have always removed the hub with the wheels still attached as that made it much easier to handle. You have to be very careful when removing the hub to not damage the oil seal on the back side. We jacked up the axle, placed a trash bag filled with grease under the tires, and lowered them back down until the tires were resting on the bag. Then remove the axle nut. This way the whole hub/tire set would slide straight off. You might think about replacing the brakes while you have it off if needed as the brake drum will come off with the hub/spokes. (this is the way I have seen it done anyway)

 

[Greg]

A wheel dolly makes it real easy to remove the tires, spoke and drum as one assembly with a good chance of not damaging the wheel seal. That is if you have the luxury of having one or can get your hands on one.

Wheel dolly a ton of money if you buy one new. Auctions they can be had for less. I lucked out and got one from a distressed party on ebay for $150.00. Mine has paid for it self umteen times over in time and labor savings.

Many times I just put new wheel seal in when having wheel off of truck. For $25.00 or so it is cheap insurance to just replace it and not risk a leak later.

Asw far as separating the spoke from the brake drum, you will need the whole assembly off of the truck first so as to make it possible to get socket on bolt head in the drum.

 

[torquedoff]

I am not getting a clear picture in my head with regards to the Axle Bearing Nut. Will that expose itself after I remove the axle? or in this case (74' F-700) does the hub come off by the bolts on the back side of the assembly. Which would mean the brake line must be disconnected as well? I took the Axle off previously and don't recall anything on the inside that looked like it was holding on the hub. I've added a pic of the rear side of the assy.

 

[torquedoff]

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/pho...RgN20rfFAXZWX2ozfcYKZQZlI?feat=directlink.jpg

Hmmm, the link on the previous reply is not displaying for me. I'll try again.

 

[DirtHauler]

I am not getting a clear picture in my head with regards to the Axle Bearing Nut. Will that expose itself after I remove the axle? or in this case (74' F-700) does the hub come off by the bolts on the back side of the assembly. Which would mean the brake line must be disconnected as well? I took the Axle off previously and don't recall anything on the inside that looked like it was holding on the hub. I've added a pic of the rear side of the assy.

Those bolts just hold the brake hardware on, you will not have to mess with them at all. Once the axle is removed you will see a big nut that holds the bearings together and thus the hub to the spindle. I attached an axle that i grabbed from google images (for a much lighter duty truck) that likely will be similar to what you will encounter. The nut is the ring with all the ribs in it, it unscrews with a special socket. There is a special way to retorque that axle nut that i am not aware of. I would suggest you make a new thread about this topic (now that you have 3 post you can do that) and get the needed guidance about how to do that so your bearings don't fail causing the hub to fall off down the road. Here is a basic guide on how to do this on a ford pick-up but it is very similar. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/986298-how-to-replace-rear-wheel-hub-bearings.html

 

[torquedoff]

I removed the Axle and it exposed a 3 1/2" hub nut. This nut has minor cutouts in a few areas, does the nut require a socket or can it be hammered loose with a screw driver or chisel? Which is how it looks, but don't want to hammer on it if it may damage the hub or bearing.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/swV_iI-4jtXYB-EPOPcMnm0rfFAXZWX2ozfcYKZQZlI?feat=directlink

 

[DirtHauler]

I removed the Axle and it exposed a 3 1/2" hub nut. This nut has minor cutouts in a few areas, does the nut require a socket or can it be hammered loose with a screw driver or chisel? Which is how it looks, but don't want to hammer on it if it may damage the hub or bearing.

A chisel should work, I have seen it done that way. It might be easier to rent or buy a socket like this. I don't think they are the expensive. Remember to check the direction of the threads before you start pounding away on it.

 

[torquedoff]

Thanks DirtHauler & Greg, with a couple well placed blows on a chisel and large hammer the nut came off without much of a fight. There was a locking ring that pinned the second nut to the hub, and the second nut. I already had the tires off so I just got on top of the whole assembly and slid it off gently. The drum separated from the spokes easy enough. The bearings, brakes and seal look in good shape. I'll replace the seal if I can find one. It's hard to find anyone with parts for a 74' F-700 around here. Most of the chain stores don't have computer programs don't go that far back and very few still have the books. I'll Google the part numbers if I can find them. Now I just hope the EDM doesn't cost me an arm and a leg or otherwise I'm off to Birmingham AL to the large Truck junk yard. Thanks again you guys are great!

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0dvt9_AO1NKBOg-fOFBH6G0rfFAXZWX2ozfcYKZQZlI?feat=directlink

 

[DirtHauler]

Nice job man. If you can get one of the fancy seals that have two parts that slip on themselves its worth a few extra bucks.

 

[Greg]

I bought the sockets like the ones pictured in a previous post here. They only run between 20 to 25 bucks a piece depending on the size you need.

Faster and easier that hammer and chisel. You can, in my opinion, get the nuts tightened better when putting it back together.

 

[torquedoff]

I took the spoke to my local machine shop and on the wall there is a sigh that says 'Minimum walk in orders $500 (Gulp) Well I fight the urge to leave and stayed to talk to Scott. He told me he could be flexible with the minimum (phewww). Well I drive around back and start telling them the story of breaking 5 drill bits and an easy out on this stud from hell and they can't help but ride me about the nice job I have done on it! Then Scott asks me what all the crap was in the back of my truck and I told him I have been volunteering with tornado clean-up (April 27th, 2011 F-5 hit our county). Well three guys worked two hours and they finally get it done. Couldn't remove the whole stud, but was able to get 7 good threads. I ask Scott what this is going to set me back and he said "12 Platinums". Holy Crap that made my day!!!