joe03dodge
Member
Hello i am new to the scraper world,i am wondering what yall are charging. do you charge by the yard or the hour. I am running a 480 horse tractor with 17 yard ejector pan. Any help will be great.
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price for moving dirt
- Thread starter joe03dodge
- Start date
Greg
Senior Member
Depends on a whole bunch of things. What kind of materal, how far is it being moved, how big is the job, is it wet, does the material have to be placed, compacted and graded. Not just that simple.
If you go by the hour than you will have to a detailed analysis of your operating costs.
If you go by the hour than you will have to a detailed analysis of your operating costs.
DPete
Senior Member
Exactly right Greg, all depends on what is required. We start a job Monday my winning bid was $2.55 which includes stripping, ripping, dozerwork, bulking the material, water, compaction and about 4 days finishing. On the other end we have moved it for $ .90 digging a basin where all the material was stockpiled for off haul, very little finishing, no compaction, just dust control and keep the haul roads smooth.
SE-Ia Cowman
Well-Known Member
It would be hard to charge by the yard if you were not working a enginered job were you knew the exact yardage counting loads is not accurate unless you figure shrink and compaction. I would try for a hourly rate of what the tractor is worth then figure scraper. Around here you can rent a 17 yard eject for 3 to 5k per month that figures 17 to 28 dollors /hr. I like to have a set hourly rate in my mind and then check myself with load count or progress yardage report to see if we are makeing hourly rate or not makeing it.
What kind of work are you doing, is this a rubber tired farm tractor with a renyolds pan or what exactly?? Does it have anykind of blade on it, do you dig tanks on ranches where you have to clear the brush with a dozer first before you can start earth moving?? Do you have pictures of the tractor and scraper?? Dirt work on ranch tanking down here is closely tied o fuel since it takes 15 gallons an hour with a d8k and scraper, makes a difference for sure, how wide of a tire on your machine, do you have it duallyed up or floatation tires for dirt work or ???
alwaysbusted
Member
With the drought making root plowing impossible in south Texas, we have done dirtwork all year. NRCS allocates funding for ranch tank construction ranging around the $1.40/yd mark with contractors doing the work for $1.75 to $2.00. That includes necessary coring, topsoil stockpiling, excavation, dam site trenching, dam construction in 6 inch lifts with full compaction, and placement of topsoil over completed dam. Some are doing the work with similar equipment to yours in the $135 to $175 hourly rate. Others are at the $200 rate but are not staying busy full time. I prefer to use the hourly rate; tougher soils justify it and at other times good conditions create higher hourly production for the customer. I set an hourly rate for my equipment then add a fuel surcharge tied to the price back on January 1. Customers understand and accept this as fair to both of us as fuel prices fluctuate.
Just curious what does the drought have to do with not being able to root plow?? Root plowing may mean to you something different like land clearing operations which involve burning brush piles fter chaining and stacking or after root plowing nd wheel root raking?? We plowed thousands of acres with d8 36as and prayed it would be droughty??? This was straight root plowing no burning involed, if there was a burn ban all one can do is leave the piles to one side and come back and burn them later, in my area it takes a d8 cat about 1 hour and 45 minutes to put a acre of land into production, chaining and stacking, burning piles, root plowing, root raking, stacking roots into piles burning again til land is clear etc etc We set the pitch on the Holt Plow all the way back and used special hand welded borium on the top of the root plow edge to plow under extremey dry conditions, the burn ban is what is the hold back i would think??
We got to where we never worked with the NRCS jobs due to red tape and politics, it was always funny to go by later and see there overengineered tank dry or dam broke with first heavy rain, typical goverement deal, they never dug a tank but were in charge of telling the customer how the contractor had to do itlol You better be charging $200 an hour and getting paid regularly as one bad paycheck can wreck a guy nowdays, let the pricecutters with new machines do all of the free work!!!! I would find out what kind of production your machine can produce on a job in a 8 hour shift and keep track of your hours until you can bid by the yard, how much fuel does your machine burn when tanking???
We got to where we never worked with the NRCS jobs due to red tape and politics, it was always funny to go by later and see there overengineered tank dry or dam broke with first heavy rain, typical goverement deal, they never dug a tank but were in charge of telling the customer how the contractor had to do itlol You better be charging $200 an hour and getting paid regularly as one bad paycheck can wreck a guy nowdays, let the pricecutters with new machines do all of the free work!!!! I would find out what kind of production your machine can produce on a job in a 8 hour shift and keep track of your hours until you can bid by the yard, how much fuel does your machine burn when tanking???
alwaysbusted
Member
1970Cat16 our last NRCS tank was pretty close to what you describe. They spec'd it for 10 ft depth and assured the rancher it was good to go. I moved in and dug to 9 and hit sand that I could hand dig for another 2 1/2 ft with no end in sight. The engineer said he only cored to 8 because it was too hard for him to finish. We are in the Eagle Ford oil play here and ranchers have better budgets now and are wanting to improve their water supply so we do the soil survey, watershed calculations, then do multiple cores and give the landowner an open-ended estimate of cost. We rip the dryed out clay subsoil and run an 18 yd scraper behind an articulated Deere. We burn about 9-10 gallons/hour on each machine. Ripper points don't last long, even with regular hard-facing treatments but it really helps yds per hour. Joe03dodge are you ripping in front of the scraper? What are you charging?
On root plowing this Spring we were plowing up clods the size of a mattress and were setting off overheat alarms in 106+ heat making for some really rough ground that would not break up to get the rake through. Two weeks ago we got our first rain since the first of the year so things are improving for the short term anyway. We started a new reservoir the day after that rain and the first pan cut of 4 inches hit dry dirt.
On root plowing this Spring we were plowing up clods the size of a mattress and were setting off overheat alarms in 106+ heat making for some really rough ground that would not break up to get the rake through. Two weeks ago we got our first rain since the first of the year so things are improving for the short term anyway. We started a new reservoir the day after that rain and the first pan cut of 4 inches hit dry dirt.
I am extremely curious as to what tractor you are plowing with and what type of root plow and root rake, some of the plows and rakes holt built dont work like others due to the different versions that they produced, alarms going off sounds like a newer tractor with powershift transmission, we regularly plowed up bathtub sized clods but never had a problem with raking them, wondering what your root rake looks like on the feet and what angle it is, some of the those rakes they made dont take the ground well sounds like you have one, as far as your root plow what type of shark fins were you running for clod buster??? When we got into that cement like soild we rasied the height so that the plowed ground went up higher than normal to help break out the clods so the rake could enter the ground??? The onyl guy left that knows hard surfacing that will last and can get it done is Archie Lee down at Sequin or his brother Johnny, they worked on so many direct drive d7 d8 d9 that they started making there own root rakes and root plows at one time, Holt used to call and ask them what welding rod was working on cutting edges and ripper points the best for them, there step dad was the genius Jack Arnold, so much so they Holt sued him to get him to stop a invention he was working on the stacked the roots as one pulled the root plow instead of going back and root raking later when the desired amount was root plowed and chainging out to wheel raking, have you ever seen a StakHoe??? Way before its time and ingenious, had some bugs but Jack died before he could get it going correctly, i think archine still has whats left of one somewhere, I have plowed with a oil clutch d8 2u, a d813a 14a and hi horse D8 36a's the high horse 36a was the best plow tractor, those d8 76 were turned up to much and transmssion life went down to 3000 hours vs the 10000 hours a d8 h would give root plowing, I still have a d9 18a with a Holt plow, it regularly got 40 acres a day with a real catkinner who styed on it 10 hours and did not keep backing uplol The good old days!!! Heck its a shame no land clearing work anymore like it used to be,,,
alwaysbusted
Member
Sounds like there must be several guys that Holt uses for special projects. My plow and half a dozen more in the area were designed and built by a master machinist south of San Antonio who regularly has Holt equipment in his shop for retrofitting and correcting design flaws. His plows are built stronger than the tractor and have max clearance for good flow in heavy cover.
You run bigger tractors than I do. I run a Deere 750C at 150 hp pulling a 9 ft plow at 16 inch depth. It runs on hydraulic cylinder control, (no cable) so we can make it plow when cable units won't. Another local contractor with two late model D8s and three D7s also had to quit root plowing because his cutting edges were dulling in 10-20 hours. He runs a mix of Holt and the custom built plows. We both follow the plows with heavy Rome type disks which allows cleaner raking. Our plows have root risers, (shark fins) to push the roots to the surface at that depth. All works great in both regular weather and really dry weather but plowing this year in this historic drought is something no one has faced before. This summer we still put in 10 hr workdays but had to shut down between 1 pm and 5 pm to protect the equipment. I've seen a few things in the business since 1987 but this is the toughest year on equipment. Fortunately we have been able to make things work out another year.
You run bigger tractors than I do. I run a Deere 750C at 150 hp pulling a 9 ft plow at 16 inch depth. It runs on hydraulic cylinder control, (no cable) so we can make it plow when cable units won't. Another local contractor with two late model D8s and three D7s also had to quit root plowing because his cutting edges were dulling in 10-20 hours. He runs a mix of Holt and the custom built plows. We both follow the plows with heavy Rome type disks which allows cleaner raking. Our plows have root risers, (shark fins) to push the roots to the surface at that depth. All works great in both regular weather and really dry weather but plowing this year in this historic drought is something no one has faced before. This summer we still put in 10 hr workdays but had to shut down between 1 pm and 5 pm to protect the equipment. I've seen a few things in the business since 1987 but this is the toughest year on equipment. Fortunately we have been able to make things work out another year.
Foster used to be a
welder on plows etc for the Holt shop back in the day, John Deere is not direct drive so no wonder it overheats, plus the plow is to big for it by 1 foot and is rigged up with cylinder so no slack in the cable, not made for root plowing for sure maybe regowth by the hour, it your edges are wearing out that soon they are not hardfaced correctly, is your edge hardsurfaced to self sharpen?? Holt has never sold a cutting edge for a root plow that was correctly hardsurfaced for dry conditions, we always made our own edges from ar 200 and hard surfaced them ourselfs, if they are dulling they are incorrectly hardsurfaced if at all from what i saw last time somebody gave me a way overpriced Holt cutting edge from san antonio, when the hardsurfaced top of the cutting edge is done correctly it stays sharp as it work wears away and leaves a sharp edge as the ar plate wears until the edge must be reheeled again, sounds like somebody is just slapping on holt edges and wearing them out asap, go to the holt san antonio office and look for the pictures of the 5 Dh 8's picture on the wall root plowing with the bufflegrass seeder running off the ccu, I worked on and owned 1 of them at one time one of those tractors with the Holt plow, there was no dulling of edges on by the acre jobs or plowing over with a rome disc those hung up root piles from plowing with dull edges!!!lol Blow fans and direct drive tractors, custom radiators, with 29 cable control units is what it takes to seperate the real plow hands from the wannabees, Holt or Foster never got paid for root plowing by the acre that i know of, you ought to go down to Laredo or Alamo texas and watch somebody who plows in dry condtions every day by the contract acre, did you try to use a root rake with wider than normal foot widths to help break up the clods? I have seen that done as well when bathtubs were being plowed up,,,
welder on plows etc for the Holt shop back in the day, John Deere is not direct drive so no wonder it overheats, plus the plow is to big for it by 1 foot and is rigged up with cylinder so no slack in the cable, not made for root plowing for sure maybe regowth by the hour, it your edges are wearing out that soon they are not hardfaced correctly, is your edge hardsurfaced to self sharpen?? Holt has never sold a cutting edge for a root plow that was correctly hardsurfaced for dry conditions, we always made our own edges from ar 200 and hard surfaced them ourselfs, if they are dulling they are incorrectly hardsurfaced if at all from what i saw last time somebody gave me a way overpriced Holt cutting edge from san antonio, when the hardsurfaced top of the cutting edge is done correctly it stays sharp as it work wears away and leaves a sharp edge as the ar plate wears until the edge must be reheeled again, sounds like somebody is just slapping on holt edges and wearing them out asap, go to the holt san antonio office and look for the pictures of the 5 Dh 8's picture on the wall root plowing with the bufflegrass seeder running off the ccu, I worked on and owned 1 of them at one time one of those tractors with the Holt plow, there was no dulling of edges on by the acre jobs or plowing over with a rome disc those hung up root piles from plowing with dull edges!!!lol Blow fans and direct drive tractors, custom radiators, with 29 cable control units is what it takes to seperate the real plow hands from the wannabees, Holt or Foster never got paid for root plowing by the acre that i know of, you ought to go down to Laredo or Alamo texas and watch somebody who plows in dry condtions every day by the contract acre, did you try to use a root rake with wider than normal foot widths to help break up the clods? I have seen that done as well when bathtubs were being plowed up,,,
alwaysbusted
Member
I appreciate your comments but clearly engineering technology has advanced decades since your times; trust me today's equipment is vastly improved, well designed and maintained and does quality work, as do the operators who are well-experienced, no wannabees here.
There simply is no comparison to the current Texas drought, only someone who has worked in it has any idea of what it is like.
There simply is no comparison to the current Texas drought, only someone who has worked in it has any idea of what it is like.
Were you really working in it when your 850 was overheating and making alarms go off while you sat in the shade for 5 hours??? The 8 foot plow design you are pulling was made to pull with a 1945 d8 cat with a direct drive, blow fan, Cat cable control #29, your lucky somebody with a real direct drive plow tractor did not find out where you were sitting in the shade and offer to show the landowner how it is susposed to be done, I would love to see a 50 year old direct drive 8 lap your new well designed set up, your lucky somebody did not find out and get your job, it would happen down here in south texas for sure, there are still a few plow tractors down here and landowners who know what the work requires and wont let you work by the hour and give excuseslol
Greg
Senior Member
Ya sure alwaysbusted. Sounds real good when you say it fast. Computers on current day macines cause more problems than they cure. Software engineers who know nothing about machinery and operating it write programs for things that they think would be neat which makes no sense. Case in point, Cat dozers have a feature that allow each operator to store his preferred settings for blade response and type of work being done. One of two things happens. One operator will never touch it, the next will spend all day long playing with the damn thing. Any time he is supposed to have saved is gone in playing with the computer.
As far as the principals of any of the various engineering diciplines go that has not changed. The laws of Physics don't lend themselves to being changed.
I too would love to see an early Cat D8 run rings around you and your high tech deere's while you sit in the shade waiting for it to cool down so you can get back at it.
As far as operators go, there are getting to be more and more inexperienced machine drivers, not operators, around who don't know a damn thing and further more don't want to learn anything either. The machine computer and GPS is supposed to do it all for them.
As far as the principals of any of the various engineering diciplines go that has not changed. The laws of Physics don't lend themselves to being changed.
I too would love to see an early Cat D8 run rings around you and your high tech deere's while you sit in the shade waiting for it to cool down so you can get back at it.
As far as operators go, there are getting to be more and more inexperienced machine drivers, not operators, around who don't know a damn thing and further more don't want to learn anything either. The machine computer and GPS is supposed to do it all for them.
alwaysbusted
Member
Whoa guys back off, don"t blame me for the technology, I didn't design the machine, I just make a living with it. I don't owe a dime on any of my equipment because I spent years running old equipment so I could afford newer machines. As far as hourly jobs vs contract by the acre, the landowner makes that choice in my business, I regularly do it both ways. Some contractors can't be trusted doing hourly work. I rely on my work reputation which served me well in that regard for the past 26+ years, others don't fare as well. If you run good equipment and good operators you earn a reputation that speaks for you. I don't advertize but have never had less than 6 months of future work on the schedule, a large part being repeat work for the landowners.
As far as the equipment overheating while plowing, I was able to work while Komatsu, New Holland, and lots of Cat equipment (some new some not so new) sat idle during the heat while doing relatively light duty backfilling on a pipeline project on the same ranch. And yes, the direct drives were shut down too. It doesn't sound like you are currently running a plow tractor in this drought so like I said you had to be there to know what it is like. While you would have loved to have seen a D8 plowing, well that wasn't the case, they were working the same hours as me, if at all. Clearly you have a real lifetime connection with them, I respect that. I happen to like my machines, and despite the trivial criticism, they are far superior to machines not having so much as a tier level 0 ratings--their days are numbered regardless how great they were back in the day, the EPA will see to that.
As far as the equipment overheating while plowing, I was able to work while Komatsu, New Holland, and lots of Cat equipment (some new some not so new) sat idle during the heat while doing relatively light duty backfilling on a pipeline project on the same ranch. And yes, the direct drives were shut down too. It doesn't sound like you are currently running a plow tractor in this drought so like I said you had to be there to know what it is like. While you would have loved to have seen a D8 plowing, well that wasn't the case, they were working the same hours as me, if at all. Clearly you have a real lifetime connection with them, I respect that. I happen to like my machines, and despite the trivial criticism, they are far superior to machines not having so much as a tier level 0 ratings--their days are numbered regardless how great they were back in the day, the EPA will see to that.
alwaysbusted
Member
The plow I have is a 9 foot and the tractor is a Deere 750C. At normal depth, (must be at least 16 inch minimum depth, NRCS required), I plow in 8th or 9th gear which is 3.06 mph, for what that may mean. I use NRCS rates as a guide, sometimes more sometimes less depending on tree canopy, erosion washouts, fenceline shapes, etc.
alwaysbusted
Member
Several years ago the individual county rates were discontinued and changed to a single rate structure for the entire state with a wide range of values. The range has variables for percent of tree canopy, heavy tree doze vs average, etc. Payment can match up to 50% actual cost within the range. Sorry for the lengthy description, but the short answer is that there no longer is a NRCS standard rate.