OMG wtf is this? D4h 3204 engine

[PEVO]

Finally got around to changing the engine oil in my new to me wore out D4H ser# 8PB 01320. First off the skid plates were beat to hell. Skid plate with engine oil pan access hole is up against the oil pan. Any ways...I got the drain plug off and after draining oil into the suitcase looking catch pan I find a spring that's 4 plus inches long and a small fragment of metal bout the size of a game load shotgun pellet. The diameter of the spring is not even 1 /8 in...very fine and straight. What could this have come off inside this engine?? Looks like the ends were pinched and then broken. Is this engine bout to go KABOMM? It starts right up no blue smoke either out the exhaust or blowby. I'm planning on straining the rest of the used oil to see if more came out but just got past me. How concerning is is???

 

[mitch504]

garter spring out of a seal?

 

[catman13]

can you get a closer picture so we can see more detail of it? may be lay a pencil next to it.

 

[Mark250]

garter spring out of a seal?

me too

 

[Nige]

I'm with the learned members above, the spring from an oil seal. Rear crankshaft seal (#7) maybe..?


Back to the problems you mentioned regarding the belly guards all being beat up. It may pay you to lower them completely and clean them out and/or straighten them at the same time. if those guards get full of debris on top when it dries out it can become like concrete so that if you hit something hard you could end up cracking an engine oil pan. We've lost two D6 oil pans in the past year because of that, but then again our dozers permanently work in anything up to 3ft of slop. You clean the belly guards out one day and they're full again a day later.
Be VERY careful when you lower the guards. if there is debris in them they will probably weigh twice what they're supposed to which is around 90 pounds each......

 

[thepumpguysc]

I made the mistake "ONCE", Nige.. in a garbage dump.. YUCK..
Friggin thing laying ontop of me ozzing "stuff" down my neck.. ewww.
I figured I could catch it w/ my chest?? nope.. pinned me to the ground..lol
Live & learn I guess..
I've gone out w/ trainees & never had the heart to put them thru that.. I'd watchm pull those bolts out & my heart just wouldn't let me do it.. I'd say, "STOP.. lemme tell you alittle story".. Lol

 

[kshansen]

I would agree #7 seal garter spring! Or then it could be half of the spring off the #1 seal at the rear!

I might be tempted to flush some oil through the engine and see if more comes out. May even be able to slip a small magnet up in there to encourage it along?

Would it be possible to drop the oil pan while the oil is out and bellypan is off? If it is an easy couple hours work I might do that much.

Not wanting to gamble with someone else's money but myself unless my livelihood depended on this machine I would be tempted to just do the flush and keep an eye on leaks at the front seal or signs of engine oil getting into the transmission oil, like oil level coming up or getting dark.

 

[PEVO]

Looks like a spring from a seal too....But ive never seen a seal inside a crank case...always outside pressed in. Only way for that spring to make its way inside would be to get sucked thru a oil passage straight into the pan...is that even possible? Used oil was dark but no metallic glitter pouring out. I dont see no leaks.......yet. Oil levels stayed the same. I didnt notice the extra hardware till i already refilled with fresh oil. How thick are the belly pans? at least 1/4inch?...Ill be heating and hammering on then for hours to get em half ass flat again. Lastly ill split the filter and see whats hiding in there.

 

[kshansen]

Looks like a spring from a seal too....But ive never seen a seal inside a crank case...always outside pressed in. Only way for that spring to make its way inside would be to get sucked thru a oil passage straight into the pan...is that even possible?

Well if you look at the seal #7 in the picture Nige posted you can see the spring side of the seal is facing the inside of the front cover. So if it broke or came off while someone hammered it in place it would end up in the oil pan. Same with the #1 seal that is the rear main seal, only difference is that seal has a double lip with a spring on both sides!



Another idea that came to mind just now. If someone had replaced say the front seal while engine was in-frame by drilling or punching some hole in it then putting screws in to pull it out they may have broke the spring and not even noticed it then put new seal and sleeve in with the broken spring in the engine!

 

[Nige]

i wasn't so concerned about the dings in the belly guards, more the fact that when full of dried mud and other debris their concrete-like consistency could cause a cracked oil pan which would be a big $$ failure. Is there any way you can look down from inside the engine compartment and see how much trash is in there..?

 

[Birken Vogt]

if those guards get full of debris on top when it dries out it can become like concrete so that if you hit something hard you could end up cracking an engine oil pan. We've lost two D6 oil pans in the past year because of that, but then again our dozers permanently work in anything up to 3ft of slop. You clean the belly guards out one day and they're full again a day later

At least if they get cleaned out once in a while the slop might stay sloppy and squish out and not damage the oil pan if the guard gets shoved up.

 

[PEVO]

i wasn't so concerned about the dings in the belly guards, more the fact that when full of dried mud and other debris their concrete-like consistency could cause a cracked oil pan which would be a big $$ failure. Is there any way you can look down from inside the engine compartment and see how much trash is in there..?

Yes...ive got the screen covers off it now and the lower skirts (to get to oil and fuel filter) and YES full of crap...twigs, leaves, dirt...few small rocks & a snake skin! Something kinda concerns me is the engine doesnt seem very snappy (responsive) like if the turbo is out. But i did the finger spin check and after a quick flick it will spin freely for 1 sec or so. So im thinking fuel delivery. This dozer doesnt have a strainer before the lift pump only the fuel filter before the injector pump. But there is a inline screen right before the lift pump i can check (i think). Have not changed main fuel filter yet...but will soon. ill see if that puts some pep back in it. it starts and runs fine...just seems slow to spool up and recover when suddenly under a load or when changing gears and working the decelerator peddle. OR maybe it's just a little tired.

 

[DPete]

Not so sure about the seal spring, take another look there is a solid straight end. A better photo would help.

 

[PEVO]

i blew it up and cropped it.

 

[DPete]

Yes, it's coils on the end, my mistake

 

[Nige]

From the photo it's obviously been chomped on a bit before it landed in the oil pan, maybe it went through the front gear train between the crankshaft gear and the first intermediate gear..?

 

[d9gdon]

So im thinking fuel delivery. This dozer doesnt have a strainer before the lift pump only the fuel filter before the injector pump. But there is a inline screen right before the lift pump i can check (i think). Have not changed main fuel filter yet...but will soon. ill see if that puts some pep back in it. it starts and runs fine...just seems slow to spool up and recover when suddenly under a load or when changing gears and working the decelerator peddle. OR maybe it's just a little tired.

That sounds like a timing problem more than fuel problem. If it was fuel, it would act like it was running out of diesel and then recover on idle.

You should be able to put the engine on TDC and then check the static timing of the injection pump. The front gear train wears and causes a change in the timing.

Then you can check the dynamic timing after you get the static timing confirmed.

Different injection pumps have different procedures to set the timing, but it is not hard to do with any of them.

Can't remember if you have the service manual or not.

That can also be caused by air being sucked into the fuel. Those 3204's were famous for having a finicky fuel system.

 

[Dave Neubert]

SIS shows a screen on the suction side of the transfer pump it looks like it is in the fitting 2w7671 is the part #

 

[PEVO]

Got the front belly pan off today...3-4 inches of dirt and crap came out with it. Beat the chit out of it with a BFH. Cleaned up alot of the rust with a grinder...then sprayed it with undercoating to ck the rust. Will try to get to the other off in the next two days or so. BUT...on a bad note I can see the 2nd belly pan his oil on it...so I do have a leak somewhere there...more headaches

 

[Nige]

So it looks like removing the belly guards was a good idea after all .........