Noise in Trans or Final 1980 TD8

[Alaska Dan]

I bought this about 2 months ago and recently began to hear a noise that sounds like a low howl. It sounds to be coming from the trans or final. I haven't hit anything or done any hard pushing. Mostly just pushing snow so far.

I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas or how I chould go about trouble shooting it.

Thank you

Dan

80 International TD8

 

[Drifter]

Never actually worked on a TD8. But a quick easy way to try and find out where that noise is coming from is to take a oil sample and get in analyzed. Drain the oil and cut open the filters to check for contamination.

 

[Bigstevex4]

yep oil samples tran and both finals. then resample in 150hours see if its getting wource. chasing noise it a experiment in futality. unless as i tell customers if it sounds like a soup can in a blender then immidiate action is requerd

 

[OneWelder]

You do not give much info.- is this a constant noise or just when machine is moving ?- does it change as the machine warms up ? Is it stored in the cold or heated garage? Does it have the proper oil in trans for the temp ?

 

[John C.]

How cold is it in Wasilla right now.

The pumps would make a lot of noise when the oil was cold. My experience with the finals was that they would simply lock up when something went bad in there. Do you have any leaks where air could be getting in. What have you done to the machine since you got it. Is it possible that since you run it for awhile and don't have to think about that so hard that now you notice other things?

Just a couple of ideas.

 

[Alaska Dan]

Thanks guys for your questions and sharing your experience. I'll try to give more info.

The temp when I am using it is high teens/low 20's. I'm not using it for long periods of time, usually only 30 minutes to an hour pushing snow or skidding a tree. I did try to move with the parking break on once. The clutch pressure gauge has shown zero since I bought it - I asumed it didn't work. One guy in a local shop said maybe a trans clutch is hanging up and suggested connecting it to a working gauge. He also said to cut the filter and look for metal. I took fluid samples the first week in Dec. and NC Machine supposedly sent them to the Seattle SOS lab. I called Seattle today and they said they would look into it and call back - they haven't called yet.

OneWelder, it only makes the noise when the dozer is moving. I hear it in first and second in both directions while wearing ear muffs (for shooting ranges). It is a constant noise. It is stored outside. Proper oil for the temps? Not sure about that but it is full.

Frankly, I'm concerned. The guy who said it might be a clutch said if it is it would be pretty expensive. If I have to have that done can anyone give me an idea of what I might be looking at?

John C, you said the pumps would make a lot of noise. Would you suggest I run it for more than an hour and see if things quiet down. I have not used it since I realized there may be a problem. I don;t know if there are any leaks but I don;t see any fluids on the ground where it is parked.

I don't know if this helps, but when I had a D-2 Cat a log got wedged between the track frame and engine causing the pivot pin to crack the transmission housing. With the bearing and driveline shaft out of alignment it made a noise very similar to this.

From this thread I understand it will not hurt to operate it. There are no "bolts in a tin can" sounds..

Thank you for your help,

Dan

 

[Alaska Dan]

One more thing..

This is a 1980 with only 1350 hours, or 45 hours a year on average. They said they operated it every year but I am wondering if it may have dried out and caused bearing damage?

Dan

 

[Alaska Dan]

OK, I just finished operating for about an hour - pushing snow and back-blading. I can hear the sound in all 3 gears, not just 2. I listened closer and it seemed to be coming from the finals. When I made a u-turn, locking the left track for a 180, the noise became louder while turning.

As I was enjoying myself I found myself thinking about what John C siad. I think there is some truth to noticing things while getting used to a new machine. I have rented D-3's in the past and noticed they have a hum, or low whine sound when moving. Maybe all dozers do that. It's been a decade since I had one of my own and I'm sure I've forgot a lot. So, maybe I overreacted. I'm not sure.

Still, I will connect a working gauge to the clutch pressure line. Then track down the fluid sample results from NC Machine and go from there.

The more I use this the easier it seems to operate. I like how the steering levers are set close together to make steering with one hand easy.

One last thing, would it be normal for the noise to subside as it warms up? Might be wishful thinking but that seems to be the case...

Thanks,

Dan

 

[rocko59]

Hi Dan sounds like you have a pretty nice machine there. They are a pretty reliable sturdy unit, 1980 is close to the serial # break for the change up to the "small" trans, it changed at S/N 9501, they are a strong trans too, just a lot more compact, basically the same trans is used in the TD12's with a 466 engine. As John said, the pumps will make some noise until the oil warms up and these do have a scavenge pump that won't pick up much oil in the trans until they run for a bit. On any of these you can check the sprocket shaft bearings and preload by prying on a sprocket tooth to see if there is any noticeable sideways movement or looseness, it should be tight. the finals were beefed up on the 9501+ machines too, not usually a problem. Most have a magnetic plug at the fill /check hole on the rear of the final drive housing, so check those too. I would repair the clutch pressure gauge so you can monitor things, it can let you know a lot by how it reads. The final drives have straight cut spur gears so that will make some of that type sound, especially when turning because all the power is going to one track. If one is noisier though, it is worth looking further. Are both tracks set at the right adjustment?. We have clutch pressure gauges in stock at our shop in BC, 250 546 6518 8-5 M-F We specialize in IH/Dresser crawlers & have a large stock of new & used parts for most models. Let us know what else you find, hope this helps, R59

 

[Alaska Dan]

rocko59, thanks for your reply. When you say the pumps will make noise until the oil warms up, how long would you estimate that might take in 20 degree weather when the dozer is stored outside?

Dan

 

[rocko59]

Hi Dan If that's 20 deg F, it may go on for 5 minutes or so, make sure there's no suction leaks. Yours should have the little strainer under the right side of the floor plate, check both hoses too. R59

 

[John C.]

I've seen the noise from cold oil go on about half and hour to forty five minutes in severe cold. That's why they use arctic oil up there.

The manufacturer's recommended oil for the transmission in those machines is pretty thin but it would take awhile to warm in that kind of cold.

Your oil samples should tell you the viscosity of your oil and give you a better idea if that might be the problem. NC Machinery should have been able to pull your sample results up in minutes and let you know over the phone. They have an email process that would be able to send you the results almost immediately.

Call the lab in Seattle direct and ask. Don't waste your time calling the Alaska branch if they haven't gotten service to you yet. My motto for dealers and manufacturers is "Don't take No from anyone that can't say Yes". If you don't get an answer from one person go to the next one higher until the issue is resolved.

 

[Alaska Dan]

John,

I did call the Seattle SOS lab direct. They said they never received the samples and they called Wasilla with that info. Wasilla said they sent them to Anchorage who was suppose to send on to Seattle. It's messed up but Wasilla is looking into it. Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow.

Dan

 

[Alaska Dan]

The bad news is N.C Machine lost my samples. The good news is they offered to send their mechanic over Monday to take new ones.

Dan

 

[Landworks]

Is this a direct drive machine?

 

[Alaska Dan]

It is power shift with a torque converter.

 

[Landworks]

I had a TD 15 with the torque converter. Had a similar sound and wound up loosing a bearing in the trans. which stripped some gears. Might want to try and find where this is coming from before you have a failure. As previously mentioned, oil samples should provide some insight. Good luck

 

[Alaska Dan]

Thanks. You may have saved me a lot of heartache with that reply.

My clutch pressure gauge is working now and reads about 50% on the gauge.

If it sat too long the bearings could have started to rust. If a bearing is pitted and starting to go out will the fluid sample show it? I also noticed the gear noise seems louder when wearing ear muffs than without them.

I should have the sample results back next week and will post them.

Thanks!

Dan

 

[Alaska Dan]

A friend came over today who has dozer experience. He said he couldn't hear anything out of the ordinary.

Friday I talked to a mechanic at Modern Machine. He related a story about one operator who said, after hundreds of hours on the same machine, that it sounded different and something was wrong. The mechanic "pretended" to make a few adjustments before assuring the operator everything was ok now. He operated it again and after a minute a big smile came over his face while he thanked the mechanic for fixing his machine.

When I started operating my TD-8 I was not wearing earmuffs, and I didn't notice any unusual noise. It was after I started wearing muffs that I heard the sound and became concerned. While my friend walked it back and forth I heard gear noise, but all dozers have some gear noise.

I will be glad to get the results of the fluid samples, especially the trans fluid. Two people have told me that if bearings are going out in the trans it will show up on the report.

Dan

 

[rocko59]

Good to hear that Dan. Let us know when you get the sample results.