No Start Ford LRG 425

[dwhickey]

Can’t get our 2006 Ford LRG425 (SN# 06VG56426) engine that is part of an Eaton 21kW backup generator system. Here are the particulars:

• Engine configured for LP gas. Verified shut-off valve opens properly and I see ½ PSI before entering the zero pressure LC-50 throttle body.
• Verified that thecarburator butterfly moves freely and operates correctly when the engine is cranking
• Did compression testing on cylinders – all around 130 PSI
• I see spark when I remove spark plug wire and test for spark

This system resides in cold weather (Illinois) and does have a heater. Engine temperature at the top of the block is 90-95 degrees.
Any help in further troubleshooting would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Birken Vogt]

I would next spray some carb cleaner down the intake and see if you can get it to fire and/or run on that. If you have a smooth finger you can get it to run right up to governed speed and level off with the right amount of spray. Then you will know for sure you have a lack of fuel delivery.

 

[PJ The Kid]

If it's set up for propane anyway, I would get a propane torch and run it thru the throttle body and see if it runs. That would rule out fuel without puddling in the intake like choke clean. Do you have an actual spark tester or just letting it arc to a bolt? I would make sure it is a good strong spark. Is the machine processor controlled? May have jumped time, iirc that is a belt motor. Compression seems a bit low @130psi. Is that a wet test or dry test.

 

[dwhickey]

If it's set up for propane anyway, I would get a propane torch and run it thru the throttle body and see if it runs. That would rule out fuel without puddling in the intake like choke clean. Do you have an actual spark tester or just letting it arc to a bolt? I would make sure it is a good strong spark. Is the machine processor controlled? May have jumped time, iirc that is a belt motor. Compression seems a bit low @130psi. Is that a wet test or dry test.

I do not have a spark tester - I just let it arc to a bolt. The machine is processor controlled. I will try to get specific details/pictures later today and post. Compression test was a dry test

 

[PJ The Kid]

Could still have weak spark, not sure what is needed or changed on a LPG setup but I worked on alot of these in rangers and saw a few washed down cylinders, may be able to pull the plugs and spray some PB Blaster down each chamber and try starting again. Is it a coil pack or individual coils? How does it sound when you turn it over? does it turn over excessively easy? Or does it sound like a normal vehicle with some resistance pushing back?

 

[Birken Vogt]

I do believe compression is a bit low but it could be in how it was measured, and it should still run at 130 psi. However it is easier to get a worn out engine to start on gasoline or cleaner which are a mixture of hydrocarbons than on propane alone which is one single component. So spraying something different down the inlet, try with gas valve on and with it off, will help determine if it wants to run or not.

As for puddling, don't spray that much and only spray when it is actively cranking, and any good cleaner will evaporate pretty quick anyhow.

 

[excavator]

I've used acetylene on older engines, especially when they're badly flooded. It dries them right out.

 

[dwhickey]

I would next spray some carb cleaner down the intake and see if you can get it to fire and/or run on that. If you have a smooth finger you can get it to run right up to governed speed and level off with the right amount of spray. Then you will know for sure you have a lack of fuel delivery.

Vogt - the air filter is difficult to get off without taking the whole generator top off - it is right up against the cover. Would it be possible to spray the carb cleaner in the pictured test port?

Trying to plan ahead on the outcome of the carb cleaner test.

If the engine starts with the carb cleaner, what are the next fuel delivery items to check?
If the engine doesn't start with the carb cleaner, what are the next items to investigate?

 

[dwhickey]

If it's set up for propane anyway, I would get a propane torch and run it thru the throttle body and see if it runs. That would rule out fuel without puddling in the intake like choke clean. Do you have an actual spark tester or just letting it arc to a bolt? I would make sure it is a good strong spark. Is the machine processor controlled? May have jumped time, iirc that is a belt motor. Compression seems a bit low @130psi. Is that a wet test or dry test.

The engine is controlled by a Ford ICM (see picture). It also has engine interface module for the generator. See pictures

 

[DIYDAVE]

I've seen mud-daubing insects stuff a dead victim insect, into a diaphragm hole, on a regulator, then lay an egg on it, and close the regulator up with mud or web, and thereby render it useless. Might want to check anything on the system, that has a hole that looks like it has been sealed, with anything from brown to white color range...:idea

 

[Birken Vogt]

You are going to have to change the air filter when the thing is in service so you might as well figure out a way.

Without access direct into the throat, it is going to be much harder to get the spray how you want it.

I would not use the plug you noted, but directly above it there is what looks like a black fresh air elbow/hose nipple with a hose clamp. Remove that and you can get some fuel in there, preferably with a snorkel straw.

As for the possibility of bugs, well your type of R500 is susceptible to it, but it looks like the vent hose is connected to a balance port somewhere instead of open air so it is not likely to be the problem, at least this time.

 

[grandpa]

I think that engine may have a CPS (Cam Positioning Sensor). A faulty one of those could create your symptoms. Maybe worth a check.

 

[dwhickey]

Got the air filter off. Tried both carb cleaner and ether. Sprayed for about 1.5 - 2 secs into the throttle body while cranking. Engine didn't even pop.
Getting good spark. Engine was heated to 90 degrees.

What should be checked next?

 

[dwhickey]

Grandpa -where would the CPS be on this engine? Is there a way to verify if the current sensor is working? Do you have a part number for a replacement, if needed?

 

[DIYDAVE]

Most CPS sensors are located right on the crank, usually on the front pulley, sometimes integral to the harmonic balancer, at least on cars...

 

[Birken Vogt]

Check cam timing. 130 sounds a little low. Maybe it jumped a tooth. They like to do that. 150-160 is more what I would expect to see but it is not scientific.

 

[dwhickey]

Took off the timing belt cover and found that the camshaft sprocket was not aligned with TDC. Took off timing belt and aligned the camshaft sprocket. Put everything back together and the engine started right up. After running for about a minute it shut down due to low oil pressure. Put pressure gauge on engine and oil pressure only showed 5psi. Took timing belt back off and removed oil pump. I believe this was the source of the original problem causing the timing to slip. Old oil pump seems to have a certain area where it is difficult to turn. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement pump? Napa, AutoZone or will this have to be ordered? Not having much look trying to google the part number that was on the old pump. Anyone have a part number I can search for?

 

[Birken Vogt]

Try the oil pump from a Ford Ranger about the same year. I am 99% sure they are all the same but I can't guarantee it. If you want to buy the genuine Ford part call Powertech at (800) 891-1776.

 

[dwhickey]

Ford Ranger doesn't seem like to same part. Could it be some other Ford you are thinking of?

 

[dwhickey]

Had to go back to 1998-2001 Ford Ranger (also Mazda B2500) appears to be the correct part.