New Holland track loader problems for repair

[ylekyote]

I have a 2006 New Holland LT185.b or sometimes listed as LT185B skid steer compact track loader. This machine has about 1,550 hours on it and has not been rebuilt at all, as far as I know. I bought it from a shifty eyed dealer for $19,500 last year, with 1,350 hours on the meter. It operated fine when I test operated it, but I did not have a chance to use a blade on it to use the front auxiliary hydraulics (my lesson learned). This is my first machine and I bought it to maintain my small ranch in western CO.

Six problems:

1. It started making a grinding or clanking noise when going in reverse sometimes. I know the front right idler wheel is noisy and slightly loose acting so it's likely wearing out. It sounds/feels like the reverse noise may be on the right side as well. And it seems to only do it if I go into reverse after spinning the machine in a tight area.

The same right hand track also loosens frequently so I have to refill the hydraulic grease tensioner on it every 40 hours or so.

I hope the noise is just the front idler wheel, maybe rear one too, but is the intermittent reverse noise sometimes anything else, like the drive motor, gears, or other more costly parts?

2. When I operate my CAT grading blade the machine acts like it wants to stall when I use the tilt functions. It doesn't stall completely but acts like something is governing it while I tilt the blade to cut. One guy told me to turn off the high flow function but there does not seem to be that option to turn it off. He thought maybe the high flow was trying to push to much oil through the blade, and said the blade doesn't need high flow volume.

My friend seems to think it's some kind of safety mechanism but I can't find references online or in the overpriced $400 near-useless manual I bought from a New Holland parts dealer to either suggestion. Anyone else know cause or experienced this?

3. The rig cranks and runs fine upon cold start but once it heats up it begins to have a miss and blows a little black smoke, as in unburnt fuel. It does not burn/leak any motor oil at all. Or any other motor fluids. Archoil diesel fuel additive seems to help it not miss as frequently but it still does the smoking. Archoil is very expensive and I don't want to use it forever.

Any ideas to cause?

4. The hour meter reset at about 1,450 hours for no reason I know of. I was in the middle of using it lightly when it did this. It had no other abnormal electrical symptoms at the time. It makes me wonder if the machine actually has 2,900-ish (or more) hours on it because it seemed (by cosmetic wear and tear) to have more than 1,350 hours on it (when purchase). Dealer said it was a trade in from a friend he has that owns a gravel pit. Anyone have this happen and fix it?

5. The machine has high and low speed gears. When I operate it in high gear for more than a 1,000 feet or so to move it around my ranch it blows a fuse for some reason. So I usually leave it in low and it never blows the fuse. Anyone else experience and solve this?

6. I loose about 3 quarts of hydraulic oil every 6-8 hours. It ends up pooling in the bottom of the machine and leaking out of drains when I drive it around. I'm wondering if the plastic reservoir that holds about 25 quarts is cracked or if there is a line connection/hose loose. I haven't been able to identify the leak source because it gets so filthy under there. I thought about putting a dye or something in the oil to try to isolate it but I haven't found any dye that will do this and react to black light or whatever. Any suggestions?

Thanks much! I've learned not to trust resale dealers and to completely run the machine for a couple of hours at least...next time. I'm pretty sure he knew it had all these issues because the price seemed too good to be true at $19,500 and 1,350 hours. All others were selling for upwards of $29,000 with similar hours and age.

 

[GaryHoff]

Sounds like you have a bit of a fixer upper on your hands now. My reference point is from case, but most of the info crosses over.

1. The front and rear idlers were of poor quality. They have had about 4 change ups that I know of. Very common issue. After driving the machine for a while, just feel the idlers. If they are hot, the bearing is bad. Also, make sure to shim the front idler yolk center to the track frame.
Your track tensioner is probably leaking, causing the track to loosen. There was a bulletin for this.
Also make sure you change your final drive oil every 250 hours, or sooner. They only hold a few liters, so not a big cost for a longer drive life.

2. You are referring to the blade slowing down when you use the boom or bucket functions? This is normal, due to the way the valve is made. You would need high flow to address this issue.

- When using the boom function, the aux circuit will slow down, and will only be supplied by return oil from the boom.
- when using the bucket function, the aux circuit will stop (or nearly stop). This is because the return oil goes to tank, and not the aux circuit.

3. Check your intake manifold gasket. And check your turbo. Good place to start. Lift pumps were prone to failure too.

4. Instrument clusters act up if they get water in them. The hour meter is not necessarily accurate, as its easy to install a new cluster and not set the hours. If you bought the machine from the dealership, they should be able to print you the machine history, which would show previous hour meter readings from warranty repairs.

5. Sounds like your 2 speed coil is failing.

6. Speculating a hydraulic oil leak is difficult. Some common issues were the aux steel tube cracking, and the drive motor fittings leak.

 

[ylekyote]

Thank you. Very helpful info. Yes I didn't expect her to be so needy, so soon. Lol

As to the blade tilt function, problem number 2, she only does it when operating the tilt (or left/right angle) function of the blade. Putting boom up or down (left foot pedal function), or forward or backward (right pedal function) is just fine. She only does the stall-like stuttering when the angle (right joystick operation) is moved to angle the blade left or right. If I'm completely still while angling the blade it's less intense stalling action, but still does it. If I'm rolling backward or forward, it seems to almost stall the machine completely (but not quite).

Regarding the hot motor missing and black fuel smoke, problem 3, a NH guy said it could be this too: "There is a water temp switch by the injection pump to advance the timing of the injection pump on cold starts. You could try removing the wire at the injection pump and see if that makes any difference when hot. The fuel lines can be rubbed through behind the starter. I would replace the lines and I would also replace the hand lift pump. If the unit is sucking air it can damage the injection pump."

Another question I had regarding the idler wheels... Is there any harm in using her until an idler goes completely? If everything else is fine and the track jumps off, can I damage anything else? I don't want to damage anything crucial, like large sprockets or drive motor. I only use it to maintain my small ranch on dry, mostly level pasture terrain. So there's no danger to me, but not sure what losing a track because of failed idler wheel can cause to other components. Thanks much! Appreciate the guidance.

 

[GaryHoff]

in regards to #2, it sounds like its operating normally, due to machine limitations. The return oil from the tilt does not go to the aux circuit, so the tilt takes priority, and robs all the oil, making your aux circuit stop.
(is the engine almost stalling?)

#3, Your NH guy is talking about the ksb temp sender. If this is an issue, the machine will smoke white or grey, not black. The ksb sends power when cold to the timing advance, then removes power when hot. To test this you have to send power to the timing advance, and see if your smoke clears. There is only 2 wires on the injection pump, (one is timing advance, and the other is the fuel shut off).

(more advanced timing = clearer exhaust) (retarded timing = thicker exhaust, usually white)

I don't recommend running with failed idler wheels, because it can make the track walk off. It never happens in a nice dry spot. Its almost always in a mud hole, on Friday at 5. As for actual further damage, it will accelerate track wear. I have known some people to machine the idlers to take a sealed bearing, as there is no rebuild kit for the idlers.

 

[ylekyote]

Thanks for the clarification.

The smoke is dark grey, to black. Certainly not white. I'll check all the suggestions. It didn't do this when I test operated it before purchase. Not sure why it didn't because I drive it twice for about 30-40 minutes each time before taking her home.

I'm going to change the final drive oil ASAP. Not sure when done last, maybe a long while...500ish hours likely, at least.

My operator friend thinks it's not engine stalling behavior, but it sure feels similar to me (like when I did too deep or heavy with the bucket). He thinks it feels like a safety governing function, but didn't know why it would do that. So it sounds like the tilt function is not designed to be operated while moving the machine or the boom or dump functions?

I'm a novice at operating and maintaining at this point, so I'm along for the learning joy ride. Thanks again!

 

[JNB]

I don't know much about the causes regarding the other problems, but Gary is correct on the front idler. I had one on my 2012 TR that was intermittent in reverse with a loaded bucket, and then failed. I kept pumping the adjuster up and then noticed that the center and bearing were moving forward, but the idler wasn't. I think that's the reason your track is loosening up. I went with a replacement idler from Prowler. Same warranty at a third of the price of the OEM if I recall correctly. I have over 700hrs on the replacement and it's been fine. I also changed out the other side as soon as it started making noise. I have about 450hrs on that one. Changing the idler is pretty easy. I didn't even remove the track, just loosened it up and pulled it sideways enough to slide the assembly out. The inside hex sockets on both idlers were rusted and rounded out with a hex key so I used a drill to knock them down for removal. The outside hex sockets both came out easily. If you do need to change out the adjuster, the new OEM pieces are more robust than the old. I got my replacement shipped from Coleman for less than I could get it from my local dealer.

Link to my idler replacement here http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/photos/257208-rdranchers-photo-thread-68.html

And the link to the adjuster change out https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?43461-Case-NH-CTL-amp-SS-Heads-Up&p=506847&viewfull=1#post506847

 

[JNB]

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[ylekyote]

Awesome. Thank you. So maybe I will swap that ilder out in my field over a nice wkend. I have a 22ton jack and blocks.

Anyone know what the preferred oil type and weight in the final drive gears? I can't find it online. Usual 80w-90?

 

[JNB]

I think yours is the same as mine. The manual has some nifty name for their gear oil, but the dealer told me to run 85w-140. I run synthetic and change it out every 200 hrs. Believe me...you don't want to have to buy a final.

 

[JNB]

On loosening the track. Loosen the nut on the adjuster a bit, but not enough to let it fall out. There's a little spring and stuff inside there you don't want to mess with. I take a 4x4 and use the bucket to push the idler back all the way. Willie's method to remove the track from the front idler is in the adjuster link I mentioned. Pipe sections work the best along with another machine to tug on the track, but I've also used split 2x4's and even kindling on the job along with a prybar to get the track back on. Note to self...Don't keep the pipe sections on the trailer that may just be at home...

 

[GaryHoff]

The bucket tilt function will only slow down the aux circuit (on your attachment). The tilt function will not affect the boom or travel.

For the final drives:
85-140 is spec for warm weather climates.
80-90 is spec for colder climates.

 

[ylekyote]

So I have a small project to do before spring water starts flowing in two weeks but I'm going to order some parts to have ready for my right track problem after it's completed. Hope to make it all the way through irrigation project and then rebuild it. Please tell me if I'm missing anything, parts related to have ready. Not sure if I have the nomenclature right so feel free to correct that also.

1. 1 track for right side (maybe a pair if I can afford it).

2. Front right idler

3. Rear right idler

4. Right tensioner wheel ?

5. Right track tensioner, or should I rebuild for cost purposes?

6. Lower bucket pins and bushings. The bucket pins are not sloppy yet but if cheap enough can't hurt to have or change out if in the shop for the right carriage.

 

[JNB]

Not sure what you mean by tensioner wheel, but if grease isn't coming out of the seal or port, I think it's the front idler messing things up. You should be able to see if the adjuster is leaking by looking inside the cover with a flashlight. As I mentioned, you can get the idlers from Prowler to save some bucks. I would take the pressure off of the track and remove the outside hex bolt from the idler and pickup a couple new metric ones from the hardware store so you don't have to stop in the middle of the job if the inside one is shot. The original bolt is an oddball length, but a slightly longer standard bolt (1" I think it was) fits fine since the threads go in pretty deep.

 

[GaryHoff]

Before you order any parts, you should check the machine first.

1. Track - I would not change the track until it is torn more than 1".
2. Front idler - check the condition of your idler, and check prowler as JNB mentioned.
3. Rear idler - same as above.
4. Not sure what you mean by tensioner wheel. The tensioner attaches to the front idler.
5. As JNB mentioned, the tensioner will leak grease if the seals are leaking.
6. Bucket pins and bushings - They are not to hard to change. I usually weld out the old bushings. Run a few beads with the welder around the bushings, and hammer out with a punch. Since you probably don't have a puller to install the bushings, use the old pins to install the new bushings with, using a hammer. Also, if you put the new bushings in the freezer overnight, they will install much easier.

 

[ylekyote]

Thank you guys much. Much obliged! Track is good. I'll order just the front and rear idlers and tensioner if it's leaking on inspection.