New engine for my Pel Job EB 12.4 ?

[frodes]

I have a Pel Job EB 12.4 with the mitsu L3E 0,95 liter 3-syl engine. The machine have done more than 5000 hrs, and have not seen lots of maintenance.

Overhauling this engines cost a lot because of expencive parts.

I have got an offer for a L3A engine. This one is 0,7 liters and does have a little less power at the same revs as my L3E. The L3A is good for 3200 rpms, and the original L3E 2200 rpm, so the L3A is rated with higher HP.
The higher revs have no interrest in a mini digger. Power at 1500-2000 is probably what I need the most.

Will the lower torque in the L3A be noticeable?

Is the L3A a good replacement for the L3E?


Known issues with my engine :

Noisy
Smokes a lot
1 glow plug is 24V
Hard to start under +10C (the glow plug have some influence, but I suspect low compression)
Impossible to start below 0C (freezing)
Uses 1 liter oil for every 40 liters diesel.
Injectors probably not working well.
Suspect worn head gasket
Low power.

 

[joispoi]

A top performing .7l engine could perform about the same or better than a worn out .95l engine.

If the injectors are bad on the current engine, that will account for poor starting. low power and the smoking as well.

Before you condemn the motor, do a compression test.

I would replace the 24v glow plug with a correctly specified glow plug and test the others to make sure that they're working. Replace or rebuild the injectors and you'll probably see a significant difference in starting and performance. If you're not putting that many hours on the machine, I wouldn't worry about the 1l of motor oil/40hrs that it's burning(as long as you keep adding to it )

 

[Per Eriksson]

I agree pull the injectors and do a compression test as a first action, then you'll know what youre facing.

 

[frodes]

If the injectors are bad on the current engine, that will account for poor starting. low power and the smoking as well.

Before you condemn the motor, do a compression test.

I will try do to a compression test on the engine. Sadly, the cost for 1 glow plug, 3 injector nozzles and the work fitting them in the injectors will accually take me half way to the L3A I've got an offer on.

 

[joispoi]

If the compression is good, it's a lot less work to change the glow plugs and the injectors.
As far as price is concerned, there's got to be place where you can get a fair deal on parts. I know that for my Volvo V70, it's much cheaper for me to look up Bosch parts and buy them than it is to go to the dealer and by the same part made by Bosch in a box marked Volvo. What you save in money is going to cost you some time and research.

 

[strott]

If you did put the smaller engine in - will it fit right in where the original engine fits?? or will you need to 'bodge' it into place?

Is the actual engine noisey?? or is it loose components vibrating e.g engine cover/other panels?? - if it is loose parts then obviously adding a different engine will not really fix this, it may even make it worse if the newer engine ends up needing to spin at 1000 rpm more to allow you to dig in your hard clay !!

 

[frodes]

If the compression is good, it's a lot less work to change the glow plugs and the injectors.
As far as price is concerned, there's got to be place where you can get a fair deal on parts. I know that for my Volvo V70, it's much cheaper for me to look up Bosch parts and buy them than it is to go to the dealer and by the same part made by Bosch in a box marked Volvo. What you save in money is going to cost you some time and research.

I have already spent a lot of time researching, and bought 1 set of glow plugs that were supposed to fit, but didn't. It seems very hard to find the right parts. Unfortunately, this is not a car, and the after market is a little different.

The L3A I've been offered have done 400 hrs, and I can have it here, included shipping and Norwegian VAT at approx $1800. The problem is, this engines doesn't grow on trees, so I think I can't spend to long time to descide what do to.

I agree that fixing what I have is normally better than replacing the entire unit, but in this case I am not so sure.

If you did put the smaller engine in - will it fit right in where the original engine fits?? or will you need to 'bodge' it into place?

Is the actual engine noisey?? or is it loose components vibrating e.g engine cover/other panels?? - if it is loose parts then obviously adding a different engine will not really fix this, it may even make it worse if the newer engine ends up needing to spin at 1000 rpm more to allow you to dig in your hard clay !!

The L3A and L3E is supposed to be the same block with different bore. The stroke is the same, I've been told. Shuld fit like a glow.

The actual engine is very noisy. It's hard to describe the noise, it is just... loud. It dosn't sound good. When I got this machine, it did not have a air filter fitted. It has been a rental machine in England, and it seems like it's been neglected for a long time. Who knows how long it's been missing its air filter?

I've had a price for new piston rings, new head gasket, new all other gaskets one glow plug and three new injector nozzles. That was more expencive than buying the L3A I've been offered.

I am a little concerned about the power in the L3A. If the L3E is running like it is supposed to do, it will not stall even if all 3 pumps are working full time (i.e. when a function does not go any further, but the control is not released), but mine does even if just 2 of them are.

 

[strott]

I can see your predicament, missing an air filter no doubt has caused most of your engine issues - who knows what has been sucked in and grinded up in the engine??!! even if you did replace most of the parts you mentioned you may still end up with the same problems.

If the engines are a straight swap then that is good. Is the engine close to you?? ( all I am thinking is would it be worth you taking your machine to the engine and checking it will be a straight swap and then if the seller is willing let you run 'their' engine in your machine quickly so you can see how the power is delivered and whether it is any good??)

I know its more time and effort but it could save you some money in the long run!!

 

[frodes]

BTW, here is a cold start of the engine at around 0C (freezing) :

YouTube - vrabg

At 47 sec, when the revs drop, is when I let go of the key and the glowing stops. It would start easier with all glow plugs working, but is it supposed to smoke like that??

 

[frodes]

Is the engine close to you??

Not at all. I am in Norway, the engine is in the USA. Shipping isn't very expencive with jetcarrier, but trying the engine before I buy won't work. I don't find any of this engines in Norway. Their not easy to find at all.

 

[Jam]

Im only picking this up now but is the machine only used for your own use? Indirect injection diesels will put up better with poor compression than direct injection. Before you go spend a fortune get the glow plugs sorted and check your valve clearance 5k hrs they are probably fairly tight. If the smoke is slow clearing is the engine getting up to opeating temp? Is the thermostat fitted or out? Granted she mightn't be 100% put its should still be servicable for awhile.

 

[frodes]

Im only picking this up now but is the machine only used for your own use? Indirect injection diesels will put up better with poor compression than direct injection. Before you go spend a fortune get the glow plugs sorted and check your valve clearance 5k hrs they are probably fairly tight. If the smoke is slow clearing is the engine getting up to opeating temp? Is the thermostat fitted or out? Granted she mightn't be 100% put its should still be servicable for awhile.

The smoke is better after the temperature raises. I usually let it run at high idle for 5 min before i start using it.

I mostly use it for my own, but I also let it out some. Not mouch, mostly just to cover expences and "for fun" to learn a little business

Thermostat is a good tip. I have noticed the air from the radiator gets hot very quickly. If the thermostat is working right, the radiator shuldnt be hot at all before the engine is at normal operating temperature, right?

I'll use the machine on thuesday, will try check the temperature with an IR thermometer.

 

[Jam]

Engine should warm up first give it a check

 

[strott]

Poor engine - a sad sight to see.

 

[strott]

Sounds to me that engine is running too fast anyway (when it gets going that is!!) compared to the peljobs that I have driven.

As you know diesel engines are designed to run at lower speeds where there is more torque (that L3e engine's max torque is at 1850 rpm, the engines top speed should be 2100/2200 rpm) anything over that and you are making more noise and burning more fuel.

If you turn the revs down is the machine not any more powerful??

This may help you out - your machine is the same except for the servo controls:

http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/7...D-C81941627C3A/0/PJ_SiriusPlus23210039802.pdf

 

[frodes]

Sounds to me that engine is running too fast anyway (when it gets going that is!!) compared to the peljobs that I have driven.

As you know diesel engines are designed to run at lower speeds where there is more torque (that L3e engine's max torque is at 1850 rpm, the engines top speed should be 2100/2200 rpm) anything over that and you are making more noise and burning more fuel.

If you turn the revs down is the machine not any more powerful??

This may help you out - your machine is the same except for the servo controls:

http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/7...D-C81941627C3A/0/PJ_SiriusPlus23210039802.pdf

Hello. Thanks for your input. I think the sound is fooling you. Not too good sound on the phone, and that makes the engine sound different that it really is. I can't see any signs of the max rev screw beeing tampered with. According to the manual, max rpms shuld be 2200 rpm. I don't have any way of measuring this, but i almost never run the poor thing at max revs, usually about 2/3.
There are no more power in the hydraulics at higher revs, but the engine is less likely to stall.

How can I measure the engine RPMs?

 

[strott]

Not too sure how to measure the rpms as there is no computer on the machine to do so (my kubota KX41-3 has a rev counter display e.t.c) It is good that it appears the engine hasn't been tampered with however these machines were popular with utility contractors here in the uk (especially the servo controlled machines) and they were prone to turning the engines up to spin the pumps faster therefore gaining more speed!!.

Only way to really tell is to have a listen to another peljob EB12.4!!

Once your engine starts it doesn't appear to be smoking all the time which is a good thing.

 

[frodes]

Hello again.

I've now been offered a L3E engine. Seller don't have records for it, but they specialice in good engine with low hr count.

Seller say it starts up and fire on all cylinders with no smoke. I attach 4 pictures of the engine running. Seller don't have any more info on this engine, but say it is one of the newer ones, because the engine cover is a little different.

What do you think? Seller asks for $1195, and shipping to Norway is approx $350.

Keep in mind 1 new glow plug is almost $200, and the same for each injection nozzle.

 

[strott]

If you are going to go down the engine change route then like for like is the best way. If you can see it running in the pics and hear it running (over the phone!!) and all seems good then go for it.

Is that a lot more cost than the smaller engine you were offered?

 

[frodes]

If you are going to go down the engine change route then like for like is the best way. If you can see it running in the pics and hear it running (over the phone!!) and all seems good then go for it.

Is that a lot more cost than the smaller engine you were offered?

Price is basically the same (+$100).

I'll ask the seller if he can send me a video of it running.