New DEERE vs old CAT ?? please HELP

[alvaro]

hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and to the construction industry, I need some help, I'm buying my first motorgrader and I need some honest opinion.
I'm between a 1993 CAT 120G or a bigger, newer and more powerful but less popular 2002 DEERE 770CH , the price is pretty much the same and i don't know the exact hours.

The machine is for export and where I live there are a couple of CAT dealers where you can find nearly every part, in the other hand the DEERE dealer have fewer parts and some times it takes a week to find some DEERE parts.

Taking into account the frequency which these machine need new parts, with witch machine i will be better of??

( I forgot .... the motorgrader is for road construction and is going to work 170 hours a month for the next 4 years )

thanks in advance for your help.

 

[John C.]

You are talking of running this machine approximately 8,160 hours over the next four years and you are buying worn out machines to do it?

It sounds like you don't have the money to get the proper machine for the job. Basically you are going to spend as much on repair parts and down time as you do for the capital costs to begin with.

In my mind it won't matter which machine you choose. Neither is going to be able to accomplish what you want for a reasonable cost.

 

[ben46a]

That is a pile of hours for a grader, I would suggest looking into leasing a new unit for that amount of work.

 

[dayexco]

2000 hrs a yr is a lot of hours for a motor grader? isn't typical life on them about 15k hours?

 

[heavylift]

if it's a gray market Cat.... run fast.... we have a couple pieces of gray market stuff. It's not off the shelf parts... we had a 312 hoe set for 2 weeks waiting for a front idler.
I don't run a blade a lot, but theyre basically the same to me... the deere stalls easier when you first start out. the cat , let out on the clutch , it goes. the deere will stall out ... 10 to 20 passes you get used to the deere and everything is fine.

 

[Txdrt]

alvaro,

Like heavylift says STAY AWAY from gray market machines,there are many horror stories dealing with parts and service for these machines. Most of the big manufacturers have an RPO lease, where most of the lease payments(usually 95-98%) are put towards purchase if you are so inclined. CAT, JD, Komatsu, and Volvo make good rigs, the Company I worked for Demo'd each and it pretty much came down to price point, and the fact that our Lead Blade man doesn't like the new CAT controls.
Always buy the most machine you can.

 

[dozerdave]

Hi alvaro,

Congratulations on landing that job. It might be a once in a life time job. If you have a contract it should be easy to get financing for a new piece of equipment. Do dealers still have rental purchase.

 

[alvaro]

hello ..

I just want to say thanks to everyone.... you guys are being very helpful with your opinions...

Going back to my last question... I only can spend between 50 to 60Ks because otherwise the return on this investment it would be so small that it wont pay for the hazard of exporting the machine and the operational cost....

the machine is going to southamerica and the roads are smaller, the labor is cheaper and the payment are also less, so there is no place for a new $200000 CAT, the "numbers" just don't run when you go over $100000 and forget about renting it dosnt work that way down there.

Between the two bad choices, which one is the less "bad", in other words which one would break less?, how frequently they will break?, it is worth it to sacrifice less availability of DEERE parts, because it has 9 years less of use and it will break less? or they both going to break pretty much the same because they are both old and I will be better of with the CAT because of the availability of the parts??

thanks again for your opinions ..... please try your best to answer I know its a little complicated but i really need to take the correct decision I'm unemployed right now and this is my last shot.... I have to make it work....

 

[heavylift]

I would think the older cat would be the better choice.. If it has the better parts source. the cat may have less electronics, don't no for sure, But you would have just mechanical breackdowns instead of electronic also... Most of our newer stuff is usually electronics break down. with the occasional hydraulic hose...
It's pretty bad when the mechanic exits his truck with a laptop instead of a wrench

 

[dozerdave]

Hi alvaro,

I have worked in South America on a large dam project and I would say my choice would be the Cat grader. Not only because of parts and service but I think if you plan to hire local operators they will climb right up and go to work.

 

[Deereman]

hello ..

, it is worth it to sacrifice less availability of DEERE parts, because it has 9 years less of use and it will break less?

Bellboy can maybe chime in one this but the deere parts should be able to be purchased through them. And SHOULD be within your reach pretty quick. Also If I'm not mistaken bell has a rebaged deere grader. Either way you sound like you are in between a rock and hard place with what it sounds like.

 

[heavylift]

About 10 years ago, we had some Deere blades rented from RSC . Everyday for 2 weeks, they would switch a blade out.. Finally I asked the saleman one day what was going on.. He said they couldn't sell new equipment overseas, It had to be used... Don't know if he was pulling my leg or not

 

[Hendrik]

About 10 years ago, we had some Deere blades rented from RSC . Everyday for 2 weeks, they would switch a blade out.. Finally I asked the saleman one day what was going on.. He said they couldn't sell new equipment overseas, It had to be used... Don't know if he was pulling my leg or not

This may well be true as import duties in some places are a lot higher for brand new machines as opposed to used ones.
Far as the old puss versus newer forest animal goes, first question is why don't you know the hours? Secondly what is the condition of each machine, the only way to tell is to use them.
Like this piece of junk they want 32K for
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6954505&GUID=f2b6807e780e4ce885562517b342b2e7
I don't think you'll get a decent 2002 JD for under 80k unless you are lucky.
If you are going to fix them up as you go I would say go with the Cat.

 

[V16CatMetKanick]

Cat makes an ok grader, they have alot of transmissions issues though on the older machines. Deere, Volvo, and Champion are the best on the market right now for graders. The new Cats are really good but only after '98 when they closed the plant in the UK and started making them over here again. Try the machines out and get the hours posted. Check all the fluids, belts, hoses, pins, turntable, wheels, controls, and hydraulic functions. Then if your satisfied make your decision then.