Need some advice

[heliotropicmoth]

Hello all,

I posted this in the "introduce yourself" thread but didn't get much response.

I have a desk job in accounting and wish to change careers. Feel free to talk me out of it if you feel the need, but I just cannot stand what I do now. I have always been interested in heavy machines and would like to work with earthworks in the Permaculture industry eventually. I have a few questions I was hoping to get answered on this forum.

Is the heavy equipment field feast and famine in regards to work in spring-fall and no work in the winter? I am located in SW Ohio.

Do newbies typically get hired on at a specific company or do you have to do contract work mostly? How does the newbie get the experience required in most of the ads I see for heavy equipment operators?

The Career center program around me offers NCCER Heavy Equipment Operation – Levels 1, 2 & 3. Is this the industry standard or would I want any other certifications? Should I get my CDL through this same program or find a job that possibly will put me through it? Is a CDL license and Hazmat something I would want / need in this industry?

I am male 33 year old, a homeowner and engaged to be married. No kids yet.

I have other questions but this is a good start. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Patrick

 

[AustinM]

I'll try to answer your questions in order:

Yes it is feast and famine depending on your geographical location. Where i work it is very much a seasonal occupation unless you are in management. We have seasonal employees that work all summer and draw unemployment in the winter. I don't know much about Ohio's winter but if the ground freezes, (and I'm sure it does there) road building and major site work ceases. Home building site work may continue, but at a slower pace and it's hit or miss. Have a good window of weather and they will work, but can't if it snows.

In my experience, the way a newbie with no experience gets in the seat of equipment is by starting as a laborer and working their way up. You may be able to start as an operator apprentice in a union but I have no input on that because I work in a state that doesn't have unions for road or site work construction. Maybe another member on here can have more input on that. You gotta start from the ground up and prove yourself.

If you get a certification from a career center it might help and certainly wouldn't be a bad idea to prove to an employer you have at least sat in the seat of the machine you are applying for but if you do get a job, don't expect to be the "backhoe operator" because you have the certification. One of the many things I like about this work is that it doesn't matter how degreed you are, talent overrides seniority and level of education. I don't work in a union though.

I think your best bet is to get the equipment certification and the CDL and Hazmat through the training center but apply as a laborer and make sure your epuipment certifications are listed on your application. Having a CDL when I was younger kept me working a lot later in the year than other guys, strictly because I had one and they didn't. I commend you for looking elsewhere for work if you aren't satisfied because it is really nice to be able to look back on a days work and physically see the results of your labor. The only way to make sure you stay employed in a feast or famine or seasonal construction work and don't get laid off is be motivated to get into management in the future. Take an interest in the business behind construction because it takes a lot more than to just be a good operator to stay employed year round. Being an accountant gives you an advantage because I'm guessing you already have a decent handle on cost vs. revenue. I hope that helps. Good Luck!

 

[Iron@Dirt]

I do a little part time dozer work for neibors and at the camp. Its really good to get out the shop and smell some fresh dirt and tear up some trees once in a while, might even be therapy. I say go for it.

 

[JNB]

I 'll throw something else into the mix I guess.

What about going it alone? Check out the local market and look for an unfilled niche that you could fill. You could do it part-time on the side while still keeping your 9-5. That would keep the stress level down a bit and let you explore the possibilities.

Granted, my viewpoint does come from knowing first and foremost that I know I'd suck as an employee. I'm too headstrong I guess. Just trying to give you something more to ponder.

 

[heliotropicmoth]

So do you not need the NCCER Heavy Equipment Operation – Levels 1, 2 & 3 certification to run heavy machines? I would much rather get an entry level job on the side, starting at the bottom, with the potential to learn how to operate heavy machines, than spend 8K for school.

 

[northmanlogging]

I'm with ya on this one, Machinist 4 days a week and log on the weekends.

Someone else mentioned find a niche and fill it, for me it started as tree service and grew from there, but I like chainsaws and don't scare easily...

Could be you get yourself a little backhoe/excavator/dozer whatever and start doing the odd jobs, digging septic drain tests, carving landscapes, building driveways what have you, and work yourself up from there.

Or start at the bottom of whatever company will have you, work your butt off until they put you in a seat, but don't expect to make as much as an accountant. Whatever happens, I'm with ya I'd rather be outside fighting rain, mud, snow and broken equipment then inside dealing with idiotic requests of pencil pushers and sucking down piped in air under harsh lighting... well you'll still get idiotic requests but thats ok customers are never right, but they pay us to do it.

 

[AustinM]

So do you not need the NCCER Heavy Equipment Operation – Levels 1, 2 & 3 certification to run heavy machines? I would much rather get an entry level job on the side, starting at the bottom, with the potential to learn how to operate heavy machines, than spend 8K for school.

In the state that I work you don't need a certification from any school to run heavy equipment with the exception of cranes I think. If the school is that expensive, I wouldn't go.

 

[heliotropicmoth]

Thanks for all the great input guys. I really don't want to take on a bunch of debt if I don't have to. I am going to sit down with an admin I know at my Career center and see what he has to say. In the end I think I will just try to get some weekend work this season wherever I can and see where that takes me.

Just curious, does anyone on this forum work in the Permaculture industry? Doing keyline or swale installations? The main reason I want to learn the ropes on some machines is to eventually be the go to guy locally for Permaculture earthworks.

Thanks again,

Patrick

 

[dozerman400]

I would suggest a operating engineers union in your state. Your young enough to work some nights somewhere to pay some bills and go to a union training center during the day and if you got the skills, still get a 20+ year pension. I would start with the skid loaders or a machine that the union suggests that they may need operators for.

 

[Delmer]

Just curious, does anyone on this forum work in the Permaculture industry?

Is there such a thing as a permaculture industry? I'm familiar with the concept, and keylines and swales, but that's about it. Does anybody actually do that in Ohio? I bet Randy or some of the other Iowa members have built swales, but you'd have to call them terraces or something else besides swales. Aren't keylines Australian? Plenty of Australian members on here, maybe they just don't recognize the hippy terminology?

The problem with a specialty is whether there is a demand in your local (economical to move heavy equipment) area. It's one thing to promote an idea with a website, another thing entirely to build a business based on a concept that doesn't have a market.

 

[heliotropicmoth]

Yes, Permaculture is taking off here in the Midwest. I am half way through my Permaculture Design Certification course. Just spent last weekend at a Permaculture farm in Kentucky with a newly developed swale system. Not sure what you mean by "hippy terminology", the term swale is a key concept in all of the Permaculture manuals, especially the ones written in Australia, where it originated. Keyline is another concept that can be implemented anywhere in the world, but yes it originated in Australia.

 

[td25c]

Yeah , I think it's best to keep your job now & work in to the excavating gig slowly . Work part time for a local excavating contractor that does farm drainage work as that is a pretty quick way to gain experience around jobs & equipment .

I had to look up what " Permaculture " & " Keyline design " was ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture#Keyline_desighn


From what I can tell Keyline design is what we call " Farm Drainage Work" . Pretty much anything that involves working with dirt & water and conservation . Building pond with water system for livestock , Ditch work , erosion control , draining a wet spot in a field with tile , etc .

Few projects we did that fall in the erosion control category . First was installing wire mesh "Gabion" baskets & rip - rap to keep water from washing out in the field . Second was a "Dry Dam" . And some field tile repair in the last . It's interesting work that leads to other opportunities .

If you ever get in Southern Indiana might be interesting to tour SIPAC . Some of the research work they do would relate to Permaculture ideas . https://ag.purdue.edu/arp/pac/Pages/sipac-home.aspx

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg6L0h9hJcw

Best of luck with it heliotropicmoth

 

[heliotropicmoth]

Nice Gambion td25c. I have put them in by hand using rock from the streams in the Red River Gorge, I am a volunteer coordinator with the trail crew down there. I will look into SIPAC, I am not that far from southern Indiana.

Thanks,

Patrick

 

[Red Roan]

My two cents: it's great that you've come to the realization that you don't like what you're currently doing & want to get outdoors. Think long and hard about that. I love heavy equipment, I love operating, but about a decade was enough for me. I own an estimating firm now.

Lot's of guys I know in their mid 30's are looking to get off equipment rather than get on it.

Similar to your situation, I came out of an office & into the world of dirt and pipe in my early thirties.. It was an uphill battle, and was several years until I became proficient at this endeavor and could actually hold a grade. And , my family owned the company.

Yeah, it's nice when the sun's out, you have fresh air and the dirt has just the right amount of moisture to curl perfectly off your blade. But most of what I remember is cold winters in open cabs, aching kidneys from being in rock for weeks at a time, paychecks shorted by weather, cleaning tracks on an 8N six days a week for three years, and dragging 10 lbs of mud in to the house every nite. Travel, ignorant foreman, and getting the inside of my trucks trashed just about rounds it out.

Oh, and I almost forgot, it can be DANGEROUS work. Not all jobs are in cornfields, or out in the country. I've seen gas line hits, trench cave ins, machines turned over and people run over, and electrocuted. Google " most dangerous occupations" & I'm sure you'll see excavating/ utility contracting in there somewhere.

After all that windage, my advice to someone like you would be not to abandon your accounting backround, but transform it in another direction, I'd look in to estimating as it relates to excavation/ utilities. You can have the best of both worlds, you can be involved with and be part of the operation without actually getting your hands dirty. Steady paycheck, interesting work, and 3-5 year sitework estimators around here can go anywhere they want.

If I ran across someone who had a clerical backround and desire to get into excavating/ utility estimating, providing they passed the smell test, I'd probably hire them on the spot.

 

[heliotropicmoth]

Thanks Red Roan,

What kind of school background do you need to get into estimating? I worked my way up in several companies to get where I am today and never went to college, other than trade school for my EMT Basic / volunteer FF certifications.

 

[td25c]

Nice Gambion td25c. I have put them in by hand using rock from the streams in the Red River Gorge, I am a volunteer coordinator with the trail crew down there. I will look into SIPAC, I am not that far from southern Indiana.

Thanks,

Patrick

Yeah , I really like the Gabion baskets for erosion control . There porous surface seems to have a diffusing effect on fast water hitting them unlike a smooth concrete wall where the water will hit it at an angle glancing off causing more turbulence down stream . In time vines & vegetation grow up on the baskets and you don't even notice them as they blend in while still doing the job . Don't hesitate giving the staff at SIPAC a call or e-mail .I'm sure they would be happy to help in any way as they have logged in countless hours of research on livestock ,forestry , and land management projects . Could be a good information resource and contact for you in the future .

 

[td25c]

Just finished up installing some more Gabion Baskets this evening . We were working in a river bottom and the land owner had some erosion issues from surface water running in to a small creek close to the river . We looked at different options . Possible terrace or dry dams above the field . The area is subject to flooding and the last flood just went off about 10 days ago and farmer is getting itchy to drop some corn in the ground . With Time & weather being what it is we decided to let the water flow as it wants and install the rock baskets at the edge of the creek . I cut & modified them for a channel so the water will flow over the basket and hauled dirt in to fill in the wash out . From the weather forecast ....looks like they will be put to the test tomorrow evening .

 

[td25c]

Also installed a few low profile 1' x 3' x 6' baskets in the smaller washouts . Was able to dig them in just using the bucket on the skid loader . Glad we got done over the weekend as rain has set in for several days now .

 

[Buckethead]

So do you not need the NCCER Heavy Equipment Operation – Levels 1, 2 & 3 certification to run heavy machines?

Most states don't require certification or licensing for dirt equipment. Most of them do for cranes.