My 580B can not even move!!!

[RFR]

This thread is what I have been looking for. Fantastic knowledge and support.

So here's my story.

Bought a 580Bck 20 years ago. Used it for a few years, seal/gasket between shuttle/engine failed, burned up shuttle. Split machine, took complete shuttle assy to local Case dealer and had them completly rebuild. (About 2600.00 if memory serves.) Re-installed, worked like new for about 30-40 hours, and reverse just quit. Forward worked fine, no reverse. Pressure guage on dash in green when in neutral or forward, when shuttle put in reverse, needle moves to the left, well into the red, and no movement.

This was ten years ago. As luck, or fortune would have it (depending on your point of view) I went thru what some refer to as a nasty divorce. One thing I did retain was my beloved 580Bck. (In retrospect, perhaps I should have given it to the ex, and kept some furniture, or dishes.) Well it is still mine now, and it still doesn't go backwards. It is now time to figure this out, and I humbly ask your help. I have worked on it previously, but time has dimmed memory, so I need to start from scratch. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Steve

 

[69911e]

Has anyone tried drilling the 1/2" hole in the under the pickup screen to clean it? Mine moves slow and I was considering it but has not seen anyone who actually tried it. I may have missed something as this thread is a bit long.

 

[jvv]

First post here, but have used a lot of info gained here. In response to the drillng and tapping a hole below the shuttle pump pickup screen, I did that on my 1975 580B and it was night and day. I didn't take any pressure readings anywhere before or after, but after that fix there has been no problems moving the machine. The procedure described somewhere on this site along with pictures made it a fairly easy job.(My thanks to Phil and anyone else involved in describing this procedure.) I drilled for a 3/4" pipe tap and plug. The pickup screen is right there as described so be prepared to stop the tap drill bit from biting in and tearing it all to hell. I nicked the corner of the tube with the bit but bent it back to close up the gap. I think it will be fine. The previously described RTV silicone strands,etc. were cleared off the screen with scriber points, etc. I flushed the whole system out with diesel and put Walmart hytrans back in and she's been doing fine.

 

[Mike.580ck]

Would you know where i can find the thread about drilling the half inch hole to clean the screen ? i would like to try it on my machine Thanks

 

[jvv]

Hello Mike, I looked back and the thread I got the hole location from was "Case 580B shuttle pump..." on page 3.(Thanks to Ronspowertrain). The drill size for a 3/4" pipe tap is 59/64". I used a 15/16" bit and there was still plenty of thread for the plug. That's considerably bigger than a 1/2" bit when you're lying under the machine driling up into the cast iron pan. I used a variable speed 1/2" Milwaukee angle drill with my elbow braced against the ground and drilled in 1/8" increments. Like I said before be prepared to slow and stop the bit as you break through. Good luck with it.

 

[Tinkerer]

Mike, You could make a sleeve out of tubing the correct length to slip over the drill bit. That would stop the bit from going into the screen.

 

[Mike.580ck]

Jvv thanks for that , and i am pretty familiar with doing things like this just not on a backhoe lol , and ive done several things to make a drill stop, if you go slow a piece of good blue painters tape wrapped around the bit or duct tape, or depending on the drill bit size , you can use a stop collar, if your not familiar with those they are awesome you just loosen the set screw move the collar where you want and tighten it back up, but thanks again im going to try and find the thread and see if i can do it , oh another thing im not sure if you guys do it or not but when working under my machine i take one of my booming chains which are 20 foot long and grade 70 and wrap it around the stabilizer pads so when my hydraulics bleed down which they all do on my machine it doesnt start going un level or even if a hose blew it wouldnt fall on me just a little idea if you havent tried it lol

 

[volikos]

Only my second post here guys so bare with me. I have had my 2 mechanics try to fix our 580b after pop's and I tried to fix our power steering problem.Trust me, it hurts to call someone out to help. We've been running it since 1980 and yes that's me on it at age 8 starting as slave labor...back to my problem. power steering is out. We have changed the pump, the lines, criss crossed the lines, gone through the power stearing cylinder and still nothing. It's worse than an old car without power steering trying to make a U turn. I got to use this thing to load pickups and screen topsoil everyday. I know she's got a few more years in her!!! Any suggestions???

 

[hookedondiesel]

Have you checked for pressure, seems to be the only thing left.

 

[RobbyT69]

you may need a torque converter as I just had to do mine..Grey sludge means aluminum fillings from your torque converter

 

[kanui]

My 580B with shuttle shift has just started leaking trans oil from the starter seam and in between the torque tube housing and oil pan. Is this a fix where I pull the starter and replace a seal? If so, is this called a "starter seal"? I read where Phil said that the seal between the oil pan and torque tube could be repaired. There is a steady stream of trans oil leaking when it's running so I really need to get this fixed. Thanks in advance

 

[alrman]

My 580B with shuttle shift has just started leaking trans oil from the starter seam and in between the torque tube housing and oil pan. Is this a fix where I pull the starter and replace a seal? If so, is this called a "starter seal"? I read where Phil said that the seal between the oil pan and torque tube could be repaired. There is a steady stream of trans oil leaking when it's running so I really need to get this fixed. Thanks in advance

Welcome to HEF kanui!
What you are describing sounds like the gasket is leaking between the engine & bellhousing. Unfortunately, it requires splitting the tractor to replace it.
Are the bolts that hold the bellhousing to the engine all tight? They may have come loose & caused the gasket to break. Tightening the bolts won't fix the leak but may slow it down a little.

 

[melben]

This post intended for the gent who lost reverse 40 hrs after a shuttle rebuild but fwd works good. Don't overlook the possibility of the cap screw that holds the rear gear on the idler shaft under the shuttle unit that gives you reverse having backed out and allowed the gear to fall off. If fwd works ok and you suddenly lost reverse I'd check that first. I have had a few over the years do that and cleaning and drying and red loctite on the capscrew keeps em on there

 

[kanui]

Thanks for the welcome alrman.

I cleaned the area real good then checked the bolts, all tight. I refilled the torque tube with trans oil. When I fire up the machine, the trans oil comes out at a steady stream at the bottom of the starter. Right at the starter seam. There must a be a seal inside the starter nose to prevent the trans oil from entering the starter motor. I don't know. I've never had a wet starter apart. Just trying to use common sense at this point but like I said, I don't know. The gasket between the bell housing and engine block is not leaking. It only looked like it was because of all of the trans oil on it. The only place I have trans oil coming out is at the starter motor housing seam. The gasket around the outside of the starter nose, if there is one, would not prevent trans oil from entering the starter nose. I would take it that the starter nose must be sitting there bathing in trans oil since this is a wet starter. Do you know if I can take this starter off and replace a bad seal in it? The starter works fine otherwise.

 

[alrman]

There maybe too much oil in the bellhousing, due to excessive leakage at the torque convertor.
Try removing the starter, clean & dry the mating surfaces & putting some sealant on the flange.
I've looked at parts listings between the mechanical (dry) shuttle & power (wet) shuttle & the main difference is a gasket & seal shown below. These would be to stop oil entering the armature of the starter.

 

[kanui]

I have pulled my starter and disassembled it. The 2 pieces that you have circled in the wet starter schematic were not in my starter. I wonder if it is possible that someone put the wrong starter on this backhoe and it has been leaking trans oil ever since? I wonder now if I truly do have a wet bell housing. The torque tube does have a drain plug right at the bottom of the bell housing so I assume it is a wet bell housing. This starter works good. I'd hate to spend $187 for a new starter and it still leak trans oil from the starter. The more I work on this, the more confused I get.

 

[Mudpile]

You will also need gasket #G46873 when mounting your starter to your power shuttle housing. I had the same problem with my 580B, missing a starter when I bought it, and had to use parts from 2 starters to complete the correct one. Seemed to me the wet and dry starter housings are different in this regard too, with a drain hole in the mechanical one. A good rebuilder can supply the plate and seals you need. Memory is a little vague but I think the drain hole can be blocked with weld. The solenoid seal is an elaborate one and needs to be in place to complete the sealed area.

These starters are more challenging yet, when differentiating between the 9 and 10 tooth models, and the correct matching housings. Trying to learn more about this since mine has a gear clashing problem. I think I have a 9 tooth housing and a 10 tooth starter drive, so the .050" offset I don't have.The area under the torque converter should have less than 1/2 a gallon in it and not be any need to drain the forward portion of the torque tube to remove your starter, just make sure nothing falls in. Oil level is maintained by the converter throwing oil into a drain trough.

 

[kanui]

I spent the $187 dollars for a 9 tooth wet starter. I just got an email from USPS that the starter is in. I'll be picking it up in few minutes. If the weather holds out today, I'll install it.

 

[hookedondiesel]

I spent the $187 dollars for a 9 tooth wet starter. I just got an email from USPS that the starter is in. I'll be picking it up in few minutes. If the weather holds out today, I'll install it.

Don't tell me it's snowing there too.

 

[kanui]

Don't tell me it's snowing there too.

It's not unusual for Hawaii to get snow all the way into June. It's been raining though. Anyway, finally got the wet starter on and bam! Problem solved.